Being hell-bent on taking over the world has its benefits.

This post has nothing to do with being hell-bent on taking over the world. That was just to get your attention. What it does have to do with is a simulation of the Dutch Supercar Challenge (DSC) that I have been cooking up, partially with similar rules to the GT-class in FSCS, a modified version of the GTRS-class that Pred put up for vote for running this season, a GT4-esque class, and a slower, Touring-esque class. These classes will include (by list of -spec (examples):

Super GT (815-860PI, depending on upgrades and handicaps):
-GT1/GTS cars (C6R Z06, DBR9, S7R)
-DTM cars (C-Class, Astra)
-JGTC GT500 cars (Supra, NSX, GT-R)
-Some R2 supercars
NOTE: The GT500 cars may need a -5% handling handicap in front, rear, or both; the GT1
and DTM cars will possibly be upgraded. More testing will have to be done with R2-class
supercars, like the F50 GT and the F40C.

GT (735-760 PI, same situation):
-GT2 cars (C6R ZR1, GT3-RSR, Esperante)
-GT3 cars (SLS GT3, MP4-12C, R8 LMS)
-JGTC GT300 cars (350Z, Impreza)
-V8 Supercars
-You could convince me to let other FSCS GT cars run in this class.
NOTE: The GT2 cars will probably need a handling handicap to run evenly with the GT3 cars,
because some of the GT3 cars cannot achieve similar handling and top speed stats.

GTB (675 PI):
-GT4 cars (MC GT4)
-FSCS GS cars, slightly upgraded
-V8 Superstars series cars (read: Oddball7000)
-Rolex Series cars, slightly downgraded
NOTE: I feel like most of these cars will be very, very close in performance.

Supersport (520-550 PI, looking for biggest possible field):
-FSCS ST cars
-Continental Tire Series ST cars (read: RR XMan77)
-Porza Sportsman Street Stock cars, slightly upgraded
-Vintage Le Mans cars
NOTE: Letting the older cars run seems a little risky to me; however, the speed-vs.-handling
thing has worked in FSCS GT for a long time, and quite well.

P.S. This type of class inclusion may require separate races/lobbies for the different classes. On my mind are two possibilities: Super GT/GT and GTB/Supersport, or Super GT/GTB and GT/Supersport.

OK guys, there you have it. Assuming all authors of above series are ok with me letting their cars run in another series, I will try my best to make this one not conflict with any other series; as to which website this series calls home is up to the people whom I just mentioned. I just want to see--and participate in-- some good, multi-class racing. If enough interest is generated, I will set a date and time for a shakedown and see how everything goes. The winning penalty system will work similarly to Pred's PIRS (which, by the way, I think works pretty well).

Let me know what you guys think.
-LSA

Interesting concept but seems like it could be messy with so many different kinds of cars. Plus it would be hard to field 4 classes right out the gate. Idk it seems too spread out but who knows.

Hmm what about condensing it so that series with similar cars could run together? ie Pred ST vs those Grand am ST cars. etc etc? and have that be the point of the series.

I see what you're saying, but the point of the DSC in real life is to have all different kinds of race cars together on the track at the same time, and that's something that I haven't seen done with A, S, and racing class cars. I guess it would be possible to do a season of racing cars and a season of modified street cars, and just alternate.

It would help if you loaded some pictures of the cars in the series. Maybe talk Pred in to running this formula for season 11?

Revised car groups:

GT500/Classic GTS: -5% grip front and rear, close to stock
GT1/DTM: close to stock (and yes, the C5R and Zakspeed Viper are competitive)

GT2: -5% grip front and rear, close to stock
GT3: full handling upgrades
GT300: close to stock
V8SC: full handling upgrades
FSCS GT: exactly how it sounds (but PI capped at 750)

GTB: no changes (still 675 base PI)

Supersport: now 525 base PI

This means that there will be 2 races, each with a higher and lower class. The classes that race together can/will be mixed up from time to time.

I would compete in this. I love GT500 cars. I do have one question, the Opel touring car is eligible right? I'm working on a livery collab with DeadLights on that particular car that I'll have a personal copy of for myself unlocked and I would love to just slap plates and series decals on it to showcase it.

Also, would the GT500 Genesis Coupe Plus be allowed to race? I rather like that car, even though it's not the "fastest" 500 speed-wise.

Preliminary car lists:

Super GT:
-GT500/GT1 (with a 5% front/rear grip handicap):
Any JGTC GT500 car (Supra, NSX, GTR, SC430, Skyline), stock
Forza Motorsport Genesis Coupe, stock
Any classic GT1 car (Porsche 911 GT1, Nissan R390, McLaren F1), stock
[16 cars]
-GTS/DTM:
Ferrari F40 Competizione, stock
Ferrari FXX, all upgrades except engine
Mosler MT900S, all upgrades except engine
Any DTM car (AMG C-Class, A4 Touring, Opel Astra V8, TT-R), stock
Any GTS/modern GT1 car (S7R, C6.R, C5.R, MC12 Viper GTS-R, DBR9, Zonda GR), stock
[20 cars]

GT:
-GT2 (with a 5% front/rear grip handicap):
Ferrari 599XX, stock
Any GT2 car (F458, F430GT, Ford GT Mk7, any 911 GT3-RSR, Abruzzi, LP560-4, M3 GT2, C6.R GT2, XKR GT, Esperante GTLM, SRT GTS-R), stock
R8 LMS, full handling upgrades
MP12-4C, full handling upgrades
[22 cars]
-GT3/GT300/V8SC:
Any GT3 car (SLS GT3, Viper CC, Z4 GT3, 911 GT3 Cup), all upgrades except engine
Any V8 Supercar (Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon), all handling upgrades
Any JGTC GT300 car (Nissan Z, Suparu Impreza), stock
M3 GTR, stock
[24 cars]
Any other car on the FSCS GT list that has not yet been mentioned, subject to FSCS GT regulations, but PI-capped at 745.

For GTB and Supersport, all builds must have:
-race tires
-full Forza aero
-roll cage
-600hp limit for GTB
-450hp limit for Supersport

Similarly to FSCS, there will be a PIRS. There is a PI max and a PI min for each class, but unlike FSCS, PI will increase only minimally.

BVR Swan wrote:

I would compete in this. I love GT500 cars. I do have one question, the Opel touring car is eligible right? I'm working on a livery collab with DeadLights on that particular car that I'll have a personal copy of for myself unlocked and I would love to just slap plates and series decals on it to showcase it.

Also, would the GT500 Genesis Coupe Plus be allowed to race? I rather like that car, even though it's not the "fastest" 500 speed-wise.

lol well there you have it. That post took a while.

The LSA wrote:

Preliminary car lists:

Super GT:
-GT500/GT1 (with a 5% front/rear grip handicap):
Any JGTC GT500 car (Supra, NSX, GTR, SC430, Skyline), stock
Forza Motorsport Genesis Coupe, stock
Any classic GT1 car (Porsche 911 GT1, Nissan R390, McLaren F1), stock
[16 cars]
-GTS/DTM:
Ferrari F40 Competizione, stock
Ferrari FXX, all upgrades except engine
Mosler MT900S, all upgrades except engine
Any DTM car (AMG C-Class, A4 Touring, Opel Astra V8, TT-R), stock
Any GTS/modern GT1 car (S7R, C6.R, C5.R, MC12 Viper GTS-R, DBR9, Zonda GR), stock
[20 cars]

GT:
-GT2 (with a 5% front/rear grip handicap):
Ferrari 599XX, stock
Any GT2 car (F458, F430GT, Ford GT Mk7, any 911 GT3-RSR, Abruzzi, LP560-4, M3 GT2, C6.R GT2, XKR GT, Esperante GTLM, SRT GTS-R), stock
R8 LMS, full handling upgrades
MP12-4C, full handling upgrades
[22 cars]
-GT3/GT300/V8SC:
Any GT3 car (SLS GT3, Viper CC, Z4 GT3, 911 GT3 Cup), all upgrades except engine
Any V8 Supercar (Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon), all handling upgrades
Any JGTC GT300 car (Nissan Z, Suparu Impreza), stock
M3 GTR, stock
[24 cars]
Any other car on the FSCS GT list that has not yet been mentioned, subject to FSCS GT regulations, but PI-capped at 745.

For GTB and Supersport, all builds must have:
-race tires
-full Forza aero
-roll cage
-600hp limit for GTB
-450hp limit for Supersport

Similarly to FSCS, there will be a PIRS. There is a PI max and a PI min for each class, but unlike FSCS, PI will increase only minimally.

Two things.
The Mosler is actually a GT300 car.
And the McLaren F1-GT is GT500 capable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT

The only issues with converting real life specs into Forza is that they don't let you add on restrictors to cars which would definitely have them in real life. I guess though you could make a homologation group for such vehicles which contains a Power handicap.

I know that the Mosler has competed in GT300 and the F1 in GT500, but those variants aren't in the game. I wish they were (as with more racing cars from various classes in different series). I REALLY wish they were. I couldn't get the Mosler to be reasonable in GT with race tires--it's just too fast. The GT1-spec F1 has similar stats and the same handicap as a GT500 car in this series, however.

The LSA wrote:

I know that the Mosler has competed in GT300 and the F1 in GT500, but those variants aren't in the game. I wish they were (as with more racing cars from various classes in different series). I REALLY wish they were. I couldn't get the Mosler to be reasonable in GT with race tires--it's just too fast. The GT1-spec F1 has similar stats and the same handicap as a GT500 car in this series, however.

The Mosler... is GODLY... in FSCS. I've tried it. But yeah there is a lot I wish they had. Also if you need help with either painting or testing drop a line. Would love to help, I love TC's and Super GT's <3!

Update: I don't know that anyone is really following my posts here (or caring, for that matter), but there are some changes and clarifications.

For Super GT, GT, and GTB: RWD only. After final balancing testing, all initial builds already stated are final, though the build may be changed as the season progresses. In Super GT, the handicap for the GT500/Classic GT1 cars may be increased to -10% front/rear grip, as handling tracks' testing suggests. In the case of GTB, all cars must be at 675 PI at the time of the first race.

For Supersport: Drive type is up to the driver. My reasoning for this is that Turn 10 has done a better job at balancing the drive types and the level of power vs grip and weight in this class is not enough for me to say that one drive type has a distinct advantage over another. Also, aero is now up to driver's choice. However, I feel that most will prefer having some downforce to none.

In GTB and Supersport, the power limit is in place to sort of guide car choice. Even though the limit may be changed, it will not be exceeded. No exceptions.

let me know if you need help with this. nein shizas consigliere will assist

Tempting. The only things left to test are drivetrain comparisons (because I haven't finalized that yet), aero vs. no aero, and potentially restricted builds (because of the imperfect PI system). I have done all the testing for GT and Super GT (actually an ongoing project that I started last year), but there are so many builds that you just can't use AI to test with in GTB and Supersport classes, where all the cars are greatly modified. Thanks for the offer, Oddball--I'll get back to you on that.

One more update before the semester's over: I have the kinks in the R2 and the R3 performance equalization worked out, and have enough room in the lobby's team and group division to run 4 groups at the same time. But that would be nightmare (or completely, utterly awesome, depending on who you are). Also, testing and tuning hundreds of possible Supersport and GTB builds is very time consuming for one person on a college senior's schedule (hats off to anyone who has ever done this). So, it's just GT and Super GT at the moment. This is how the grouping has worked itself out, and I'm pretty happy with the results. It should be noted that any eligible car may have modifications that do not raise its PI above the indicated value.

Eligible cars, finalized, with PI and designated group:

Super GT:

Aston Martin DBR9 (either): 825
Audi ABT TT-R: 827
Audi A4 Touring Car: 833
BMW M3 GT2 (either): 809
Chevrolet Corvette Racing ZR1: 816
Chevrolet Corvette Racing C5.R: 816
Chevrolet Corvette Racing C6.R: 823
Dodge Viper GTS-R V8: 811
Dodge Viper GTS-R V10: 823
Ferrari FXX: 829
Ferrari F50 GT: 875*
Ford GT Mk7: 819
Honda GT500 NSX: 859^
Hyundai FM Genesis Coupe: 859^
Jaguar RSR XKR GT: 813
Koenigsegg CCGT: 857*
Lexus GT500 SC430 (any): 857^
Maserati JMB Racing MC12: 824
McLaren F1 GTR: 848*
Mercedes-Benz C-Class Touring Car: 834
Mosler MT900S: 819
Nissan GT500 Skyline: 858^
Nissan GT500 GT-R (any): 859^
Nissan R390 GT1: 859*
Opel Astra V8: 829
Pagani Zonda GT: 825
Pagani Zonda R: 872'
Panoz Esperante GTLM: 810
Porsche 911 GT1-98: 857*
Saleen S7R: 836
Toyota GT500 Supra: 855^
Viper SRT GTS-R: 820

GT:
Any FSCS GT-eligible car: 735
Audi R8 LMS: 759^
BMW M3 GT2 (either): 756^
BMW M3 GTR (either): 735
BMW Z4 GT3: 740
Chevrolet Corvette Racing ZR1: 754^
Dodge Viper Competition Coupe (any): 730
Ferrari F430GT (any): 763^
Ferrari F458GT: 763^
Ferrari 599XX: 773'
Ford FG Falcon: 734
Ford GT Mk7: 761^
Holden Commodore VE: 734
Jaguar RSR XKR GT: 752^
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 GT2: 759^
Mercedes-Benz AMG SLS GT3: 738
Nissan GT300 Z: 736
Panoz Abruzzi GT2: 759^
Panoz Esperante GTLM: 752^
Porsche 911 GT3 Cup ('08): 725
Porsche 911 GT3 Cup ('11): 733
Porsche 911 GT3-RSR ('05): 760^
Porsche 911 GT3-RSR ('07): 756^
Porsche 911 GT3-RSR ('11): 760^
Subaru Impreza GT300: 737
Viper SRT GTS-R: 751^

Legend:
^ -5% handling
* -5% handling, -10% power
' -5% handling, -20% power

As in FSCS, GT will use Red.
Super GT will use Blue.
Qualifiers (if that is ever implemented) will use Green.

I am working on a dates and times of potential spot races, soon to come. PM me or message me on XBL if interested.

It seems that I have made more headway than I expected. Therefore, another update! The starting system that I cooked up yesterday is a big hit, and the lobby group- and team- structure means as few as 1 and as many as 4 classes may run at the same time, in the same lobby.

Lobby names have been changed to:

Unlimited: No handicap.
GT500 GT2: -5% grip
GTS: -10% power, -5% grip
Supercars: -20% power, -5% grip

If GTB and Supersport were to race with Super GT and GT, they would simply use the "Unlimited" player bucket.

In this case,
Super GT=Yellow
GT=Red
GTB=Green
Supersport=Blue

Online lobby fixed. Now cars don't crash into each other when they start. It's more awesome when there are two groups. Now looking for a home and weekly/monthly date and time.

Alrighty, this series' page is being moved to the Nein Shiza website, where I have done a good deal of clarification. You guys should go check it out--a lot of work has already been put into it. Also, sorry for taking up space on your site, Pred. I'll make sure the FSCS stays in good standing with my work.

I might be interested in this.

neinshiza.the-talk.net

Come on ever. All are welcome.