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 Proposed Class Structure Season 11

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Vote on The Class structure Please
Have a P1 Class YES
16%
 16% [ 9 ]
Have a P1 Class NO
23%
 23% [ 13 ]
GTR Class @ 820PI - 850PI
12%
 12% [ 7 ]
GTR Class @ 785PI - 800PI
16%
 16% [ 9 ]
Have the CT Class Yes
16%
 16% [ 9 ]
Have the CT Class No
7%
 7% [ 4 ]
Keep the Series AS IS
10%
 10% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 57
 

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Admin/PredatorUSMC
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PostSubject: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:52 am

PROPOSED CLASS STRUCTURE SEASON 11

P1 Class -Prototype 1
2009 Acura #66 de Ferran Motorsports ARX-02a  990PI
2011 Aston Martin #6 Muscle Milk Aston Martin Lola 989PI
2011 Audi #2 Audi SPort Team Joest R18 TDI 986PI

GTR Class - Gran Touring Race
2008 Aston Martin #009 Aston Martin Racing DBR9 825PI
2011 #02 Audi A4 Touring Car 833PI
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Racing C6.R 823PI
2000 Dodge #91 Team Oreca Dodge Viper GTS-R 823PI
2005 Maserati #15 JMB Racing MC12 824PI
2008 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-AMG C-Class Touring Car 834PI
2003 Opel #5 OPC TEAM PHOENIX Astra V8 830PI
2003 Pagani #17 Carsport America Zonda GR 825PI
2003 Saleen #2 Konrad Motorsports S7R  836PI

OR

GTR Class - Gran Touring Race
More room to Performance Balance at the 785PI
2009 Audi R8 LMS 785PI
2005 BMW #2 BMW M3 GTR 785PI
2009 BMW #92 Rahal Letterman Racing M3 GT2 785PI
2010 BMW #79 Jeff Koons BMW M3 GT2 Art Car 785PI
2010 BMW Z4 GT3 785PI
2011 Chevrolet #4 Corvette Racing ZR1 785PI
2008 Dodge #2 Mopar Dodge Viper Competition Coupe 786PI
2008 Dodge #11 Primetime Racing Group Viper Competition Coupe 786PI
2006 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F430GT 785PI
2008 Ferrari #90 Farnmacher Racing F430GT 785PI
2010 Ferrari #89 Hankook Team Farnbacher F430GT 785PI
2011 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F458 Italia 785PI
2009 Ford #40 Robertson Racing Ford GT Mk7 785PI
2010 Jaguar #33 RSR XKR GT 785PI
2011 Lamborghini #08 West Yokohama Gallardo LP560-4 790PI
2011 McLaren #59 McLaren GT MP4-12C GT3 785PI
2011 Mercedes-Benz #35 Black Falcon SLS AMG GT3 785PI
2003 Nissan #3 HASEMISPORT ENDLESSZ 785PI
2005 Nissan #46 Dream Cube's Advan Z 785PI
2005 Panoz #51 Panoz Esperante GTLM 787PI
2011 Panoz #060 Panoz Racing Abruzzi 785PI
2005 Porsche #66 AXA Racing 911 GT3 Cup 785PI
2008 Porsche #2 Gruppe Orange Racing 911 GT3 Cup 785PI
2011 Porsche #23 Alex Job Racing 911 GT3 Cup 785PI
2011 Porsche #54 Black Swan Racing 911 GT3 Cup 785PI
2005 Porsche #31 Peterson-White Lightning 911 GT3-RSR 785PI
2007 Porsche #80 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR 787PI
2011 Porsche #17 Team Falken 911 GT3-RSR 789PI
2011 Porsche #045 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR 789PI
2003 Subaru #77 CUSCO SUBARU ADVAN IMPREZA 785PI
2013 Viper #91 SRT Motorsport GTS-R  785PI
2013 Viper #93 SRT Motorsport GTS-R  785PI


GT Class - Gran Touring = Current GT class

GT/GTR / P1 Race Room will consist of
5 P1 Cars
5 GTR Cars
6 GT Cars
50 Laps per race except Le Mans and Nurburgring
Sunday at 5PM

OR

GT/GTR Race Room will consist of
8 GTR Cars
8 GT Cars
50 Laps per race except Le Mans and Nurburgring
Sunday at 5PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------

GS/CT Race Room will consist of
GS Class - Gran Sport = Current GS cars
**CT Class -Continental Tire -Base 565PI Sport Tire Compound & No Adjustable Aero  BASE PI of 565 / 500HP MAX / RWD ONLY
Rooms Will Consist of
8 GS Class
8 CT CLass
45 Laps per race except Le Mans and Nurburgring
Sunday at 5 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ST Race Room will remain with current format
16 ST cars per room
25 Laps per race except at Le Mans and Nurburgring
Sunday at 2pm

Spec Miata
Race Saturday at 3PM PST (Race time not finalized)
16 Cars per room
25 Laps

There can only be minor Perfromace Balancing adjustments made in the P1 class of cars as well as with the smaller GTR class of cars.
The GT,GS, CT, & ST class will continue with the current performance balancing system.
Spec Miata is a SPEC class and there will be no Performance Balancing of these cars.

I feel this will make the Forza Sports Car Series cover just about the entire gambit of Sports Cars and will increase our appeal to a wider crowd of racers. It will of course make for some great on track racing which is always the goal!

Your comments are welcome and up for discussion.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:07 am

I voted for the higher PI GTR class because the lower PI GTR class will be getting passed by faster GT clas drivers.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:12 am

keep the same plz
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:35 am

Was hoping for a Porsche GT Cup Class, but like the new structure as well.  Would be cool to see the RSRs in there [and perhaps give one a try.... Cool ]
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:36 am

Would there be a possibility that more/other P1 cars be added as well? Or possibly P2 cars that are given a little boost in terms of performance?
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:42 am

The P1 cars have very little room for Performance Balancing. Because of this it makes it difficult to include other cars to the list. So even though the selection is not a bunch of cars...this is pretty much the same in the real world. There's only a selection of a few P1 cars. I will take a deeper look to see if the P1 class can have a different set of P1 cars. I just felt to keep them close in the PI range kind of like a spec P1 class and then let er rip.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:43 am

Tachyon Racing wrote:
Was hoping for a Porsche GT Cup Class, but like the new structure as well.  Would be cool to see the RSRs in there [and perhaps give one a try.... Cool ]
Sorry bud. Can't please everyone with the Porsche GT Cup. BUT, you do have the RSR's available to ya!

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:56 am

Cadillac lmp?!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:21 pm

The only problem I have with the lower PI GTR is that it is too close to what we currently have for GT. The higher class GTR doesn't have enough car choice. In my opinion a better choice would be the GT500 + DTM car list, but hey it isn't my series.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:26 pm

2008 Aston Martin #009 Aston Martin Racing DBR9 825PI
2011 #02 Audi A4 Touring Car 833PI
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Racing C6.R 823PI
2000 Dodge #91 Team Oreca Dodge Viper GTS-R 823PI
2005 Maserati #15 JMB Racing MC12 824PI
2008 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-AMG C-Class Touring Car 834PI
2003 Opel #5 OPC TEAM PHOENIX Astra V8 830PI
2003 Pagani #17 Carsport America Zonda GR 825PI
2003 Saleen #2 Konrad Motorsports S7R  836PI


The bolded cars in real life are DTM cars while the rest are GT1 cars.  The GT1 cars are more powerful and will outclass the DTM cars.

Which means that only the 6 unbolded cars will be really be competitive with each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:34 pm

2009 BMW #92 Rahal Letterman Racing M3 GT2 756PI
2011 Chevrolet #4 Corvette Racing ZR1 756PI
2006 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F430GT 760PI
2008 Ferrari #90 Farnmacher Racing F430GT 760PI
2010 Ferrari #89 Hankook Team Farnbacher F430GT 760PI
2011 Ferrari #62 Risi Competizione F458 Italia 760PI
2009 Ford #40 Robertson Racing Ford GT Mk7 760PI
2010 Jaguar #33 RSR XKR GT 756PI
2011 Lamborghini #08 West Yokohama Gallardo LP560-4 759PI
2011 McLaren #59 McLaren GT MP4-12C GT3 758PI
2005 Panoz #51 Panoz Esperante GTLM 757PI
2011 Panoz #060 Panoz Racing Abruzzi 759PI
2011 Porsche #17 Team Falken 911 GT3-RSR 760PI
2011 Porsche #045 Flying Lizard 911 GT3-RSR
2003 Subaru #77 CUSCO SUBARU ADVAN IMPREZA
2013 Viper #91 SRT Motorsport GTS-R  756PI
2013 Viper #93 SRT Motorsport GTS-R  756PI

The lambo has way too much HP, The bolded Panoz IMO has too much HP, the Subaru on the other hand has too little.  Keeping a tighter spread between HP is a better choice.  Without the bolded cars it would be between 455 - 504 Even though the f430 GT's  are borderline. Without them it would be real tight and nice (455 - 491) with no car really having a glaring advantage over the other

Some might argue that 455 (porsche) vs 552 (lambo) shouldn't make a difference but I feel it would.

Also not to mention that these group of cars are pretty close to what we have now in the GT class.


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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:43 pm

#8 Audi ABT TT-R
#5 Team Phoenix Astra V8
#2-6 2011 Audi Touring Car (5 Skins)
Mercedes AMG C-Class Touring Car
#6 Exxon Superflo Supra
#6, #25, #1 2010 Lexus Sc430 (3 Skins)
#12 Calsonic Skyline
#3, #24, #23 2008 Nissan GT-R
#12 2010 Nissan GT-R
Forza Motorsport Genesis Coupe
#18 Takata Dome NSX

This list has a nice balance to it and would give us the broad spectrum of classes in a race. Your P1 would represent the R1 class, the above list would represent the R2 class, and then we would have our regular GT which is the R3 class
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:26 pm

Okay but keep in mind guys these car are competitive in real life. So if done properly racing in season 11 will be much closer then what it is now. and sgt. the lambo has no top end is handles great though. it does have a lot of hp but it cant keep up unless a good tune is on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:43 pm

Love the higher PI class we need to change things up, should eliminate most of the PI conflicts of interest and going faster cant be bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:58 pm

NSA Roca wrote:
Okay but keep in mind guys these car are competitive in real life. So if done properly racing in season 11 will be much closer then what it is now.  and sgt. the lambo has no top end is handles great though. it does have a lot of hp but it cant keep up unless a good tune is on it.
Lets do a private race, you and I. With you in one of the Porsche's and me in the Lambo.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:12 pm

I think the racing in the P1 and the GTR classes will be less competitive than the current GT class. They may be fun to race in though for those interested.  I don't know a better way to say it other than in ten seasons I have learned a lot about the cars, the racing, the drivers and many other factors here in this series.  I think the new proposed classes, although interesting, will not produce a closer racing than the current classes. I could be wrong but this is what my experience leads me to believe.

But, it will bring a new and fun dynamic to the series.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:15 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
Cadillac lmp?!!!!
Too low PI at only 975PI

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:23 pm

The lambo is to slow!!!!
As for the Caddy I don't care what the pi is I just wanna run it
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:25 pm

I ran the Lambo in some testing.  It's lacking on the high speed but it's balance is better than a few of the other cars. Probably easier to get fast in than say for example the Jag. However, the lap times I turned in it were with the pack within a reason. Some of those cars are just jump in and run quick, where as a few need some help tuning to get them to not feel so unstable at the limit.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:22 pm

Well after under going testing with the Porsche and Lambo we ran 3 tracks. Twin Ring full/Le Mans full/ and Infineon. The lambo did in fact win all three races. But i had some issues controller is busted with clutch button need to fix it. But overall in my opinion after racing the 2 cars the Porsche is better with speed and the Lambo is better with handling. Me being in the Porsche with 100 less hp i was able to keep up with and be in front of with no problem. So id say that this discussion is over with the 2 cars
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:24 pm

NSA Roca wrote:
Well after under going testing with the Porsche and Lambo we ran 3 tracks. Twin Ring full/Le Mans full/ and Infineon. The lambo did in fact win all three races. But i had some issues controller is busted with clutch button need to fix it. But overall in my opinion after racing the 2 cars the Porsche is better with speed and the Lambo is better with handling. Me being in the Porsche with 100 less hp i was able to keep up with and be in front of with no problem. So id say that this discussion is over with the 2 cars
Not yet. We were doing stock tunes. Wait until we race again with custom tunes before wrapping things up
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:45 pm

And wait for me to get on and I'll run vette, ford .gt,458, panoz.....all way easier to get the times....the lambo will not hang....at sebring, roadamerica,lamans
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:56 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
And wait for me to get on and I'll run vette, ford .gt,458, panoz.....all way easier to get the times....the lambo will not hang....at sebring, roadamerica,lamans
Not tonight bud, got paper work for the fire department to do and then we have a meeting. Can do tomorrow if that works
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:24 pm

Tethras, just to touch on a note you mentioned earlier that certain cars are more powerful than others therefore the cars with less power are outclassed. This is definitely not the case. More power USUALLY means more weight than a car in the same class. So it may scoot on the straights but when it comes time to brake and hit those corners and apexes here comes the less powerful car and in the end, the lap times are pretty close.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Class Structure Season 11   Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:58 pm

Im going to have to reread this when i have free time.... but right now we barely have 16 drivers a class and spreading the field of guys that show up to every single race even more scars me a bit. Idk. I feel like having 3 classes a room will make it feel like ALMS which in my opinion is garboli. Lets watch 4 lmps race (where only 2 of them have a chance at even finishing on the lead lap) and then 5 or 6 GT cars.... I rather watch grand am and conti where you have a deeper field of each class.
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