Proposed Class Structure Season 11

Yeah that is true matt. If we run those at the same time we might as well just run single class so that the racing will be closer. If not its like running two separate races at the same time in forza 3. ONLY 8 CARS! Thats no fun.

CT is still under development. Not finalized yet.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

CT is still under development.  Not finalized yet.

Obviously but there shouldn't be any expectations that the CT class will actually race with and pass GS cars. The grip level difference is massive.

@matthnt, that's exactly what I want. The CT cars should not be able to corner on par with GS cars. When the class is finalized it will not be as quick down the straights. (Of course there will be exceptions)

So what would be a PIRS example of a racer winning in the GTR class and then getting a PI Hit?

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

@matthnt, that's exactly what I want. The CT cars should not be able to corner on par with GS cars.  When the class is finalized it will not be as quick down the straights. (Of course there will be exceptions)

With the class structure the way it is currently that won't be a problem. 2 of my CT cars can do high 1.26s at Road Atlanta and all the others I've built are doing low 1.27s. These times are right on par with some of my A class grip builds. Top speed you can't really control though unless you implement no add on forced induction for the CT class. Some of my cars are doing 185mph at La sarthe before the first chicane on the Mulsanne, which is pretty quick.

What I remember that is about an average GS speed. Get more pi in them and they'll be walking my Caddy. It only hits about 194 with a good run to start the straight.

I know my opinion doesnt matter but CT cars with no aero and race tires would keep them slower in the straights and corners than GS. Starting pi at 600 would include tons of cars while limiting some of the more dominant cars (porsche 911, aston vantage, etc) while still allowing those manufacturers to race (caymen, older astons). Again I know it doesnt matter but I have a full Grand Am series built including the CT GS class and they are at 610pi on race tires and most are at stock power or close to it. I did a 610 simply to include the 911 body to match the series. Personally running sport tires would make them have loads of power and speed at 600 pi but a little harder to control and be bad for newer racers not used to having to push the cars as hard as we do here in the fscs. It could cause trouble on the track and for rookies looking for a place to race. I only say this because I like this series and would hate to see people leave because they dont like the first thing they try to drive and just walk away. This series to good and to much fun to fall apart over something like that.

Thanks guys for the input. It is valuable and being taken into consideration.

@piihb 185 being average gs speed at le mans!??! you crazy?   Hahah no no. I have never gone faster than 172 in GS. Your car was above and beyond an outlier. The faster/speed cars in the class do 185. Handling cars do 165-175.

A CT base PI spec Lotus is faster on a straight than my 649pi 355. And im pretty sure the lotus would be the "slowest" in straights.

Remember that my last run there was last season. The caddy and astons were flying down le sarthe

Those two cars are both crazy with top end though. Got to figure in that.

yeah man last season i was hitting like 190 on la sarthe in my aston

That just further solidifies how fast they would be compared to gs. They would out run everything.

Dr PiiHB wrote:

That just further solidifies how fast they would be compared to gs. They would out run everything.

they would out run on the straights, but then be slower in the corners. I would hope that they would be slower in the straights and in the corners when everything is worked out.

Hopefully. If not then it would be terrible to pass them. Going that fast in the straight and then half the speed in corners, that's like trying to pass a Cadillac. So annoying.

Tethras, there are a couple of issues with the DTM/GT500 car grouping. Their straight-line speed is just slightly better than the GT2 cars that can currently be chosen in GT--and they get swamped by the street cars in GT on the straight. The GT1 group has enough acceleration to easily pass by the street cars, hold them off until the end of whatever straight, then also make the corner faster than the street GT cars.

The point that I'm getting at is that, if we run a DTM/GT500 group, it will have problems with lower-class cars, which is not very fun. Furthermore, the DTM cars need the extra tire width available to them to compete with the GT500 cars, rendering them helpless in the case that a not-as-fast driver decides to hop in a DTM car. My credibility on this issue is having developed a R2 group running multiple series' models myself and having raced the C6.R GT2 for the past 2 seasons. Also, the DTM cars compete well with the GT1 cars; which group dominates just depends on the track. Their lap times, however, are very close overall.

I think Pred hit the nail on the head when picking out classes to run.

The LSA wrote:

Tethras, there are a couple of issues with the DTM/GT500 car grouping.  Their straight-line speed is just slightly better than the GT2 cars that can currently be chosen in GT--and they get swamped by the street cars in GT on the straight.  The GT1 group has enough acceleration to easily pass by the street cars, hold them off until the end of whatever straight, then also make the corner faster than the street GT cars.  

The point that I'm getting at is that, if we run a DTM/GT500 group, it will have problems with lower-class cars, which is not very fun.  Furthermore, the DTM cars need the extra tire width available to them to compete with the GT500 cars, rendering them helpless in the case that a not-as-fast driver decides to hop in a DTM car.  My credibility on this issue is having developed a R2 group running multiple series' models myself and having raced the C6.R GT2 for the past 2 seasons.  Also, the DTM cars compete well with the GT1 cars; which group dominates just depends on the track.  Their lap times, however, are very close overall.

I think Pred hit the nail on the head when picking out classes to run.

The first part of your statement would hold true only on straight line tracks (LeMans, Sebring, and Road America to an extent) Every other track is balanced out with way more turns in which the street GT cars will not be able to keep up unless you're like a Raceboy.

There is a reason why you never see a DTM vs GT1 race in real life. These cars are completely different classes. GT1 is way more powerful and still has the turning capability to match.

The reason why I advocated for a much higher class grouping in the R2 section is that a well driven GT street car can STILL keep up and cause trouble for the proposed R3 GTR class. R2 gives enough room to negate that and the DTM/GT 500 grouping would be more diverse than the the GT1 grouping.

@Tethras I understand where you are coming from with the concern about the classes not being far enough apart in PI. I have the same concern with the GS and CT cars. We still have time to test and that is what we are doing.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

@Tethras I understand where you are coming from with the concern about the classes not being far enough apart in PI. I have the same concern with the GS and CT cars. We still have time to test and that is what we are doing.

The gs and ct cars have plenty of pi between them. The average pi in gs right now is over 650. How is 50 pi not enough difference between the classes?

Bud i tested cars. I ran them and on the main straights of the tracks i ran them at, their top speed on the straights was higher than the top speed of cars like the 355 and the ford gt. Kind of like how the Caddy can keep up in the straight with the C6-R (and pass them in some instances). And that is an 80 pi difference.


However, i can say that my worries are quelled by some things that were talked about. I think the classes will be where they need to be.

Tachyon Racing wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

Though I am sure I am in the minority.....two words.....
FOOTBALL SEASON!!!!!

The better football is on Saturdays anyway.....

Sat.football is church...Sunday football is pride!!!
Ps.....GO NOLES!!!