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AAR GTDon

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:45 pm

LMR Warspite wrote:
I 100% agree on that Don, you I and Pred are admins on our own respective sites, I just want to know the community are heard is all, excluding myself from that list still plenty getting shunned.

Not saying he doesn't do enough, just some courses of action in looking at an issue or a debate should be handled differently, and if you cannot be around to do so, have people you can trust to represent you.

If when you can return you want to address the issue personally, only reading partly and then straight-up deleting without understanding the background of the arguments at hand helps no one, in fact does more harm than some realise.


Sorry if it seems like I'm stirring the pot, but maybe it took one guy with a target on his head to get others heard.


Yeah, I don't think there was a target on anyone's head, just that when you have too many chefs in the kitchen things can start to get messy.  Pred does need a helping hand I'll grant you, but he can't have that hand forced upon him either.  

Because of his absence of oversight last season, it gives the impression that he needs even more help and that he is overwhelmed with this hobby.  But he has assured me and everyone that he has more time this season, so let's see how it goes, and have fun racing each other in the mean time.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:50 pm

100% agree bud I only used what I read and heard to look into ways to add to his work so it takes a load off for him, I came in to help not take over, one or two seem to believe that is what happened but not at all, many agree on similar points and the same point comes up, how to find who gets what PI.

That was all, I understand its a tough job and keeping your drivers happy whilst making the series balanced and work well is never easy, I'v had it plenty of times and have so recently, I just use where I went wrong as knowledge for others to learn from, I want to see FSCS grow again and have more drivers get involved, it's not like I came and want to dig at every detail, just miss hearing about this place, and iv seen too many racing organisations go down the tubes in the past couple years alone.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:14 pm

LMR Warspite wrote:
100% agree bud I only used what I read and heard to look into ways to add to his work so it takes a load off for him, I came in to help not take over, one or two seem to believe that is what happened but not at all, many agree on similar points and the same point comes up, how to find who gets what PI.

That was all, I understand its a tough job and keeping your drivers happy whilst making the series balanced and work well is never easy, I'v had it plenty of times and have so recently, I just use where I went wrong as knowledge for others to learn from, I want to see FSCS grow again and have more drivers get involved, it's not like I came and want to dig at every detail, just miss hearing about this place, and iv seen too many racing organisations go down the tubes in the past couple years alone.


Then you and I see eye to eye on this brother.  I too came here just to help out a little, bring some new peeps in, and compete, but not to intrude too much.  I'd like to see all the remaining leagues come together more and cross over the imaginary walls that separate them. I think having everyone rated internationally by the FLR guys is one facet for doing this.  They are not a league, don't have members, don't conduct racing, and are fully independent of the undo influences of advertisers, sponsors, clubs, leagues, and T10.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:21 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
This is where a collaboration of ideas recently viewed in a thread we will not speak of could be put all together....

Three brakets of pi... ex.of drivers

A. Warshite, Rb, bulin bimmer.  After test can not get higher then base

B. ROSCOE, Manuel, berp +15pi ish

C.  "Rookie's " after testing. Get put in witch ever bracket "license they qual for

A goal would be to get the next "license" make the low pi a badge to strive for ....
Thanks again
These are just spit ball ideas for us to ponder
Bump
As this is a thread. I CREATED ...for progressive thinking ...... stay on my topic no reason to slant discussion else where
Thanks again
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:37 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
This is where a collaboration of ideas recently viewed in a thread we will not speak of could be put all together....

Three brakets of pi... ex.of drivers

A. Warshite, Rb, bulin bimmer.  After test can not get higher then base

B. ROSCOE, Manuel, berp +15pi ish

C.  "Rookie's " after testing. Get put in witch ever bracket "license they qual for

A goal would be to get the next "license" make the low pi a badge to strive for ....
Thanks again
These are just spit ball ideas for us to ponder
Bump
As this is a thread. I CREATED ...for progressive thinking ...... stay on my topic no reason to slant discussion else where
Thanks again

The reason for this thread and your post are both relevent to what we are discussing too, nothing is going to change for Pred and we're just saying about how the community have ideas to help him.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:51 pm

I am saying pred has nothing to do with this yet as it is for the communiy to try and come to a common ground and then present it to admins
For there ultimate decision weather it gets used or not no need to...."will nevrr this ....never that" i want for my sanity a reasonable cure for the immediat problem cause ed by the line as i would hope we all want the closest racing possible/are general honest we can make this race one for the history books of Forza
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LMR Warspite

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:59 pm

+1 on everything you said.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:41 pm

The line.  I go faster without it, when I focus on one car,  or have multiple cars with the same braking zones.  Currently I am signed up for all classes this season.  Three out of four I could race effectively without the line, their speed differences are equally counter acted by their braking abilities.  I can probably (and will, if possible) tune the other car to improve its braking ability.

I agree with Warspite that the line may allow the less skilled driver to qualify above their station.  That will remedy itself early in the race scenario with an off track excursion, hopefully one car incident.  The problem with the line is the racer focusing solely upon it, and disengaging brain while racing in close contact with cars in front of them.  Waiting to see red, immediately behind another car will result in a collision.

The vote to support the line was, for me, to improve the attraction of the series to outside competitors, increasing the size of the field.

I did like the MasterV8er tag, and don't know if it was a play on my name or not.  I took it seriously until a day or so after Roscoe's alter ego appeared.  I figured it was some gung-ho forum warrior fresh on the scene with an avatar and the whole bit.  "Come over to the dark side, we have cookies.". LOL.  

I'm eleVATOR.  Not Darth Vader.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:58 pm

Any of you jive turkeys are going to be on after11pm est
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:14 pm

Hmmm, So Since my words in PM are being pasted to public..(shady move) I will spend a moment here.

Every season we get new racers who don't understand the Balance of Performance system. Come in and stir up the pot, then it stirs up everyone including me. I try to handle it appropriately. But when people come in and just straight up tell me things like if you don't change it your series could get black listed, if you don't try this I will leave and take everyone I know with me...That right there are threats. I do not take likely to threats. I can't stress how much I don't take likely to threats. Sim world or not.

That aside here is a message in reply I sent to a certain 'new' member who is questioning how it works and strongly suggesting it's better with his ideas...

DIRECT COPY PASTE

{Mid way through his reply this was said to me by this person} < and I kept my mouth shut for the first 5 days of being here and just listened.> MY RESPONSE-  lol!  lol!  Are you bipolar? I'm just sayin. You have not kept your mouth shut since day one! (don't get offended but really?)

I have 4 seasons worth of test track data. So using a controlled environment gives me a controlled result that data can be much more accurate and conclusive. (ever heard of that process before)

I am VERY aware of the tricks. I have seen them all. People sandbagging, letting off the gas early, accelerating late etc etc.

The part change is so easy to catch it is funny. So the practice session is done and I get the raw data I need. I give them a practical PI based on that. (Unless I see obvious foul play and I will have them do it over and over until I see they are not trying to work the system.) I have done it and yes some have gotten mad about it. (one even quit) If you try to cheat and you get caught you can't get mad at anyone but yourself. Dishonesty is a trait I can't stand.

Anyway, So I get the initial raw data from the test session. I put it in my form and it is filed with driver name, car, pi etc...PI given.

Then pre-season I save replays of practice rooms and WHHHHAAAT the car has completely different performance numbers now. Hmmm, So what do I do now? I take the lap times from that in comparison to the field and those drivers that are supposedly evened out. Average lap times among all drivers in that class over all the test sessions I save and review. Then I will adjust PI after that and inform a racer of a PIRS Performance Index Rating System adjustment. This is why I know of a FEW racers who try to make it a point not to practice in the rooms with me. So I reserve a special place for them in my heart (er I mean on my sheets) so when they qualify I get data of them pushing the car and lap times. Then the first race I watch & record more data from that driver or those drivers than any other. And once again they get hit with the adjustment. Could be more, could be less PI. Who knows The system works. It's time consuming, it's not easy to explain, it's all mathematically driven but I do use a bit of experience after the PI number is spit out. Because I do Know for a fact that for some cars 3 PI can allow for a huge performance gain where as another car 3 PI will give a minimal gain. This is also varied in driver to driver build. My build and 3 PI may be different than your build and 3 PI. Again no system is perfect. This one though is damn good mathematically. Been at this for more than 3 years on Forza and a few years prior on Gran Turismo and a few other racers.

There ya go. So let the cheaters guide you if you like. Then they wonder why one guy may get a warning shot for a possible avoidable contact where as another driver get's the penalty and doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I deal with fair play with fair play. I deal with those looking to cheat the system with a more strict adherence to the rules.

That's worked in my personal life as a manager, biz owner dealing with employees. The hard worker who comes in 5 minutes late, ehh shrug my shoulders. The worker who does the bare minimum to get the check comes in late gets hit with an occurrence. If questioned I show production numbers and that usually ends that.

Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:28 pm

Before it blows up I am going to say this. I put too much time and effort into this for nothing more than to provide a place for those of like mind and varied skill levels to race and compete. Based off the mouth of a couple outspoken individuals I am being called names behind my back? You know a Man speaks to a man directly. If anyone has names to call me then do it DIRECTLY to me PM me. IF your not man enough to do so then stfu. I don't have to do this and will not keep spending hours and hours providing this if so many of you feel this is a joke. I am a joke...I am venting publicly because at this very moment I am about to just say F it and. It's not worth the damn stress I take over this.

Sorry for blowing up but I am just over the top hot with all of this. To much time for people to be inconsiderate and unappreciative!

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:32 pm

Ooo shady move, I never mentioned names or subjects but yea lets go for it, seeing as you are incapable of actually reading anything through and just answering half a question.....
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:33 pm

Kick that mothalova out the series point blank I dont care who its
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:36 pm

PREDATORUSMC wrote:
I have NO problem with the PI system, really don't, and no one I have heard or spoken to does, it is the way it is implemented people don't like,

Kind of a contradictory statement don't ya think?

However, that's ok. I understand what you have said. To make this go smoother please provide a point to point concern list and I will address each one individually.

Just to make a point I have received more than 20 PM's from racers who agree with the system and how it has worked as well as the rules. If your getting those who agree as I am it shows that No matter what happens in life...some like a system, some love a system, some hate a system, some disagree with a system, ans other try to buck the system. I have seen all of the above.

LMR WARSPITE wrote:
Okay let's get this straightened out, as I am now at a point where I am repeating myself to a brick wall.

"I have NO problem with the PI system, really don't, and no one I have heard or spoken to does, it is the way it is implemented people don't like"

Is not contradictary it is two entirely different subjects.

PI system: The difference in PI for drivers and why.
PI Implementation: How you go about finding who gets what PI.

If you cannot understand a basic point, how can you expect me to come to you with others?

Jeez there's not listening because you don't want to (Sainted) and then there's not listening because you are not capable of reading in detail of every fact. (Yourself).



If you have indeed had 20 PM's saying how it works, well... then either that's BS, I'm BS'ing or you drivers are BS'ing, I have already suggested maybe putting up a vote with simply two options, A: Do you think the current balancing process works or B: Do you think there can be other ways of determining a drivers PI.

It's that simple, and without being rude, which I am not trying to be, unless you directly address your drivers in an open eye, you will NEVER get an honest result, the thread was argumentative but it was getting somewhere, people were opening up, all this private "hide the facts" stuff is just pointless.


Simple fact of it is this, if you don't want to listen to me fine, if you want to carry on keeping the truth hidden because you don't want to test your communities honesty fine, I will NOT mention another word about it, here or in public, I will simply just sit back and let you all carry on like I wasn't even here, but i'm tellin ya, FSCS has gone from a global name to just a small group of argumentive folk.

Something to think about, so yea please don't message me anymore about this unless you are willing to find out for yourself what people think, I simply can't be bothered with it, same as you cannot be bothered with me or anyone coming in and "burning your house down".


Just a quick example... but to add you delete a whole thread without reading, and only read what you want to read, can't deal with a community trying to help you? Either request some help or think twice about how you affect the reputation of your site, FSCS was popular, now its dead, wonder why?
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:43 pm

FSCS is dead? Um from the number of people that have been on for "practice" this is actually A big turn around from last season bub. You weren't around when there were 3 of us a race… be glad that more people are showing up and that theres been improvement.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:45 pm

I know and that's why I respect it enough to pipe up, but FSCS was a well known name even in public lobbies, everyone I knew was involved somehow, 2/3 years down the line the only drivers are the ones who have been around for a while and brought in a few team mates, it was a WHOLE lot more reputatable I promise you.

Not saying its dead from these standards, a whole practice lobby is good, but thats one maybe two lobbies of people, could have been and was a whole lot more.
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:46 pm

Citizen, why you gotta steal my signature style?
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:48 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
This is where a collaboration of ideas recently viewed in a thread we will not speak of could be put all together....

Three brakets of pi... ex.of drivers

A. Warshite, Rb, bulin bimmer.  After test can not get higher then base

B. ROSCOE, Manuel, berp +15pi ish

C.  "Rookie's " after testing. Get put in witch ever bracket "license they qual for

A goal would be to get the next "license" make the low pi a badge to strive for ....
Thanks again
These are just spit ball ideas for us to ponder
Bump
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:48 pm

I do see your point and its how I showed up as somebody said "out of no where". I was in a public lobby and someone said "go to fscs.com and check it out, we start next sunday" They left the lobby and I have no idea who it was, maybe ROCA idk,  so I did, signed up and ran terrible but it got better.

p.s. just borrowed it matt Smile added some other details into it
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:51 pm

People are not here like before because FM4 is getting a bit old in the tooth. There are new systems out, new racing games...attention spans have run low on Forza. That is not a result of this series.

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:54 pm

BY THE WAY warp...Your quotes are all fubared up. I DID NOT say what you posted you said that whole paragraph.

However I wonder how you can say you have NO PROBLEM WITH THE PI SYSTEM then in the same sentence say you have a problem with how it is implemented.  Ummmm, that sounds like you have a problem with the system. I mean I am just sayin.

EDIT IN: I ALSO NEVER MENTIONED WHO SAID WHAT. THAT was ALL YOU!

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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:55 pm

Predator wrote:
People are not here like before because FM4 is getting a bit old in the tooth. There are new systems out, new racing games...attention spans have run low on Forza. That is not a result of this series.

Yea well we have more people running in FM4 series both on TORA and VM than on FM5.

Look I'm sorry you can't take feedback, and im sorry a single suggestion blew into a full blown argument, I give up on this matter, if you say it works and everyone is 100% satisfied and can promise they won't moan when the series starts, I won't now.

To everyone reading forgive the negativity it may look like I have produced, trust me this was not my intent, I only wanted to reccommend some help but it went the other way, its done and I don't have time for it, and I know neither do you.

I'll try and drive if possible but want to leave what's said on the forums kept on the forums, don't want any BS on track as a result from the few.

Thank you and take it easy.

-War.


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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:56 pm

CitizenS0ldier3 wrote:
p.s. just borrowed it matt Smile added some other details into it

Very creative, way to think outside the box Rolling Eyes 
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:58 pm

hey it took me a while to collect that data :p
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PostSubject: Re: be csrefull going inside....   Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:08 pm

WARPSITE SAID: Look I'm sorry you can't take feedback, and im sorry a single suggestion blew into a full blown argument, I give up on this matter, if you say it works and everyone is 100% satisfied and can promise they won't moan when the series starts, I won't now.)

No one will ever be 100% satisfied with anything in life ever! So i don't expect that here.  What is done here is the best that can be done with what tools are available within the multitude of variables that a sim racer and admin must deal with.

Not one racer here can honestly say I don't listen. This series has evolved due to listening.  Because I don't implement every suggestion, some heard several ways and several times does not mean I am not listening. It means that suggestion simply does not work here. It may somewhere else. just not here. I don't expect everyone to understand the math behind the system. It's complicated algorithm that I DID NOT DESIGN a double masters math major did. So I trust it. I am confident that NO series has the math behind it like this one.  But that in and of itself is variable because I still have to use a little self judgement for reasons explained over and over.

Anyway, easy to see how once again this has gotten out of control. Time to reel it back in. I will let the person who started the thread tell me what he wants. In a PM.

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