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 SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS

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Manuel CR

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:02 pm

ox FASTLANE xo wrote:

2 cents on lagging racers, I think a rule should be implemented that if you are a known lagger, known by all etc, see you flying all over the damn place whatever.....if allowed to race so be it HOWEVER if contact is made / damage done etc lagging racer accrues penalty for basically screwing up other racers day.
Also on this topic...... with a racer bouncing/flying and zig zagging all over the track that pretty much stops any rational attempt of a pass when needed. That in mind, lagging racers should either pull the hell over for impeding faster traffic(blocking) or serve a black flag penalty .... or both, this crap is really getting old.

Makes one sick when you look at the races that you got killed in then look at the points and who caused said wrecks etc  Suspect 

+1
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:42 pm

ox FASTLANE xo wrote:
Sainted I went back and saw that Tommy won at Bermese @ 758, I was 751 but could run 39.8's in practice. Thats just a good track for the car to be honest.

i thought it was sedona that he won?
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:45 pm

Either way, I personally wouldnt run the car because it isnt really my style. Its huge, not just in weight but in size. Land Yacht is what he called it.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:13 pm

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:
ox FASTLANE xo wrote:
Sainted I went back and saw that Tommy won at Bermese @ 758, I was 751 but could run 39.8's in practice. Thats just a good track for the car to be honest.

i thought it was sedona that he won?

Fastlane...I can tell you the build I gave Tommy at 758 (he won at Sedona with my build)
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:10 pm

I'm sure that I've tried every combo there is to make the PI, there is only so much you can do --- if you can't reduce weight that is. Thanks Matt and sure I'll try what ya got.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:11 pm

Alright, I'm gonna say it right now, the next person to knock me out of the way/punt me… it aint gonna end well.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:26 pm

I generally don't build other peoples cars to see what they can do. Kinda takes the fun out of it for me. It's just hard to compare without their exact tune and build anyway.  They may have a better build or tune, or they may have a worse one, either way you don't know for sure.  But, you can still get a pretty good idea if you're curious enough.

Like a few of you I've thought that Pred's 757 Ferrari 458 should be adjusted down a little, mainly because I've assumed he's improved as a driver since Season 7.  That's a lot of laps and racing to still have the same P.I. in the same car was my thought. And one would think after 5 seasons, 60 races, and well over 3,000 laps in the same car he might be a fair bit better these days.

But it appears that whatever minor improvements he's had it has only recently come up to the level of the car itself.  But I was curious and built a couple versions of his car thinking I was going to blow my 741 Saleen off the track. It turned out a lot closer than I ever expected.

Back in season 7 Pred qualified with a 1:27.339 at Laguna Seca
season 8 they skipped the track
season 9 Pred qualified with a faster 1:26.996
season 10 Pred qualified with a still faster 1:26.478

So he has gotten steadily faster obviously, but as it turns out not beyond where he should be.  I consider myself slightly faster than Pred, and ran the stock motored 458 to a 1:26.887. I then put the Enzo engine swap in it, and my times started to drop quickly.  Even so, it took a lot more tuning and laps than I would have placed bets on.  I started with 1:26.7s, then .6s, then .5s, and then .4s. After about 50 laps of testing I nailed a 1:26.227, which is barely better than my 741 Saleen.

It appears Pred has "grown" into his car very well, and has only recently matched the cars performance with his own skill.  His car doesn't have too much P.I., and it doesn't have too little.  For his skill, it's just about right.  A better driver than me or Pred, like a Diablo, or SP33D, someone like that, would get it into the high 1:25s at a 757 P.I., but then Pred would have to take some P.I. away from them, not a lot, but some.

If any of you still think Pred's car is over P.I.'d do a test yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:35 pm

Qual for Laguna?
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:52 pm

My first GT car (Ascari) ended tha season with 761 P.I and was a Top 10 and almost got the pole 1 time.

My second GT car (Noble) ended the season wuth 757 P.I and it had bad luck by being involved in many incidents, but the car was Top 10 in some tracks even with sport Tires and Top 5 in other tracks. But it wasnt competitive until I reach certain P.I to get the sport tires on and some wight off.

Now, my RUF with 749 P.I is being on Top 5 almost every track.


I´m improving and I´m happy with that!


But some cars dont get competitive until some P.I allows them to. I havent built the 458, but if you reduce the P.I 3 or 5 it can keep the Enzo engine on it?





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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:29 pm

AAR GTDon wrote:
I generally don't build other peoples cars to see what they can do. Kinda takes the fun out of it for me. It's just hard to compare without their exact tune and build anyway.  They may have a better build or tune, or they may have a worse one, either way you don't know for sure.  But, you can still get a pretty good idea if you're curious enough.

Like a few of you I've thought that Pred's 757 Ferrari 458 should be adjusted down a little, mainly because I've assumed he's improved as a driver since Season 7.  That's a lot of laps and racing to still have the same P.I. in the same car was my thought. And one would think after 5 seasons, 60 races, and well over 3,000 laps in the same car he might be a fair bit better these days.

But it appears that whatever minor improvements he's had it has only recently come up to the level of the car itself.  But I was curious and built a couple versions of his car thinking I was going to blow my 741 Saleen off the track. It turned out a lot closer than I ever expected.

Back in season 7 Pred qualified with a 1:27.339 at Laguna Seca
season 8 they skipped the track
season 9 Pred qualified with a faster 1:26.996
season 10 Pred qualified with a still faster 1:26.478

So he has gotten steadily faster obviously, but as it turns out not beyond where he should be.  I consider myself slightly faster than Pred, and ran the stock motored 458 to a 1:26.887. I then put the Enzo engine swap in it, and my times started to drop quickly.  Even so, it took a lot more tuning and laps than I would have placed bets on.  I started with 1:26.7s, then .6s, then .5s, and then .4s. After about 50 laps of testing I nailed a 1:26.227, which is barely better than my 741 Saleen.

It appears Pred has "grown" into his car very well, and has only recently matched the cars performance with his own skill.  His car doesn't have too much P.I., and it doesn't have too little.  For his skill, it's just about right.  A better driver than me or Pred, like a Diablo, or SP33D, someone like that, would get it into the high 1:25s at a 757 P.I., but then Pred would have to take some P.I. away from them, not a lot, but some.

If any of you still think Pred's car is over P.I.'d do a test yourself.

Now run McLaren and tell us what you run.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:39 am

I ran the McLaren just to see how bad it was.  Not as bad as was being said I think.  

I ran a heavy power build first for a 1:27.247, then went with the light weight build and cracked a 1:26.838. 

Matt should be faster than me in it. He should be mid 26's or better.  This would indicate that at 744, in his hands, it is competitive.  

Pred would have to give me a couple more P.I..  It's kind of like a heavier F458.  Pump it up to a 747-749 and I'd be very competitive in it.  Even at 744 it has more speed than my Saleen.  Should be fast at Road America, LeMans etc.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:46 am

....ok don now take the mp4 to sunset/Sebring/bernese...runing it just LAGUNA...thats not a test...smh

How are you faster then Pred...IVE BEAT YOU HEADS UP IN KOTH!!!
"only time you forgot to take winning pic"*/my guess as to why it folded

your ...the builds for dp YOU HELPED WITH ARE SO FAR OFF ANYONE NOT IN THE CHEVY DOES NOT HAVE A CHANCE...
YOUR CAR BUILDING /scope of balance since your prima days has been compromised ....by your logic Im only time 9pi worse then Pinky aka axe man...laughable
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:52 am

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
....ok don now take the mp4 to sunset/Sebring/bernese...runing it just LAGUNA...thats not a test...smh

How are you faster then Pred...IVE BEAT YOU HEADS UP IN KOTH!!!
"only time you forgot to take winning pic"*/my guess as to why it folded

your ...the builds for dp YOU HELPED WITH ARE SO FAR OFF ANYONE NOT IN THE CHEVY DOES NOT HAVE A CHANCE...
YOUR CAR BUILDING /scope of balance since your prima days has been compromised ....by your logic Im only time 9pi worse then Pinky aka axe man...laughable

Then when would I have time to practice with my own cars? lol  No, I don't have time to further help your guys out, sorry. 

The McLaren is a little slow (for me) at 744, but for Matt, I don't think so. Maybe, but probably not, because if I can run a .8, he can run up to a second faster than me.  Let's say he isn't his usual fast self in this car for some reason, and is only 5 tenths quicker than me, that still places him in pole contention.

The prototypes were very close in testing, but that can be different than running the car for a race where you concentrate on its weaknesses and really dig at the cars strengths.  If there was to be a season 13 for FM4, which I doubt, I agree I would redo prototypes and get the DP's up there.  They are more than a match on some tracks even now. And I was soundly beaten by Diablo when he raced his Ultima GTR and Mosler, against my FLM09 at Sunset, but we need the cars to be closer on more tracks and with more skill levels.\

As for your win in the KOTH, you did good, but one race doesn't tell the whole story.  I may not have had a good setup or any practice that day, or was distracted, or tired, or sick, or, you were just plain lucky.  All kinds of reasons why you or anyone could beat me in a single race. lol

There is always a small chance I could beat a Matthnt, or inviseco, or Diablo, or Raceboy, or Takumi, or SP33D RAC3R, or B0X, or Haydo, or PoTthed, or Bullin Wall, or gnrblaze, or Davey Skills, or Dantastic, or POPEYE, or aTastyNip, or Warspite, or , or eries, or NAT, or chemical, or chilledheat, or Rayzer and llxcamxll.  Well maybe not Rayzer or llxcamxll. lol  In fact I have beaten all of these super fast guys (except Rayzer and llxcamxll) at one time or another, but it doesn't give me the right to go around saying, "Yeah, I'm faster than you cause I beat you that one time!" lollolol 

I occupy a unique minority position on the Forza skill ladder, I'm not as fast as the elite drivers, but as fast or faster than everyone else. Only a few drivers are in this same category with me, people like ItsJustbe, Kryptonic, Leadfoot506, Vator, and others. We are the in-between crowd, just below the elite, and just above the merely fast.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:55 am

Good Job GTDon, Thanks for taking your time to test some cars. The info is quiet clear and looks that we only need just a few P.I to be in a same level. Cars are different and that is something we have to acept.



I prcaticed yesterday with Sabre at laguna, and my ST is good enought.


Thursday and qualy is still close!, now i Will have to qual 2 or 3 cars the same Day, thats no good!
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:10 am

I know what you mean Don by having the off chance of beating a faster guy doesn't mean you are faster, I think a lot have experienced that in different cases.
I would have qualified you last night if I didn't have an exam at 8am in the morning and qually had opened, because you were running good last night. And after an hour of tuning and an hour of practice I really felt like I was enjoying a track which I normally hate.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:29 am

I'll be looking for someone to qualify with beginning 2:30 PST today, and I'll be preracing as soon as possible after that with the setup Sainted sent me.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:34 am

1st. Make any excuse you want dolly you know i beat you and you conviently did not record it ...
I am NOT nor ever been a fast driver

2nd. Why open you cake hole about another drivers car if you only ran it at one track that doesnt represent the track list
Answer... you feel a fast driver is sand bagging...as you have suggested ALL SEASON

3RD. DIABLO IS WAY FASTER THEN YOU AND IT WAS NOT AT A ACCEL/grip track

4th .if your so good why do you not Qual better? Sandbagging perhaps....

5th. Anyone who has pro sticker from preds storefront is in violation of livery rule...as the one sent to me yesterday is not the same as the one on his storefront
FINALLY DOLLY stop being counter productive. If you want preds algorythem so bad...maybe ...no Im sure going under the table will not get the results your expecting
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:38 am

Laguna is the first track this season where the McLaren is decent. I MAY be able to get a mid 26 but not the way I was running last night. Hired and I both ran a 27.356. We'll see but its still not a top 5 car(I think pole in GT will be a 1.25) I ran at 744 at the Alps last night and only managed a 40.583, an improvement but still way behind there at that track. I'm not so concerned with winning GT races, if I was I would've picked something fast at 735 like a 458, GT2 rs, lambos etc.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:28 am

Manuel CR wrote:
My first GT car (Ascari) ended tha season with 761 P.I and was a Top 10 and almost got the pole 1 time.

My second GT car (Noble) ended the season wuth 757 P.I and it had bad luck by being involved in many incidents, but the car was Top 10 in some tracks even with sport Tires and Top 5 in other tracks.  But it wasnt competitive until I reach certain P.I to get the sport tires on and some wight off.

Now, my RUF with 749 P.I is being on Top 5 almost every track.


I´m improving and I´m happy with that!


But some cars dont get competitive until some P.I allows them to.  I havent built the 458, but if you reduce the P.I 3 or 5 it can keep the Enzo engine on it?    

Just an FYI...I do not have an Enzo motor in my Italia. Never have. Never will. My car has never been Supercharged, turbo charged or any of that. I like naturally aspirated cars. I myself don't prefer motor swaps. I like the way the factory braniac engineers designed it then I like to put some after market items to bring out the beast in...er I mean bring out the best in cars.

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:47 am

Matthnt wrote:
Laguna is the first track this season where the McLaren is decent.  I MAY be able to get a mid 26 but not the way I was running last night. Hired and I both ran a 27.356. We'll see but its still not a top 5 car(I think pole in GT will be a 1.25) I ran at 744 at the Alps last night and only managed a 40.583, an improvement but still way behind there at that track.  I'm not so concerned with winning GT races, if I was I would've picked something fast at 735 like a 458, GT2 rs, lambos etc.

If you ran 744PI at the Alps and only got a 1:40.5 then you my friend have lost your touch. I did some testing of a few cars Tuesday night and the McLaren was one of the cars tested. I built it at 741. With a tune I built in 10 minutes and spent another 10 getting to where the car felt ok for me I drove a hard 15 laps at Bernese and was turning Mid 1:39's. Thats at 741....So I built it to 740 took it to Sunset P Reverse and crashed a couple of times into the walls. But once I changed the tune a little then after about 6 laps I hit a 1:28.6 @740.  I personally do not like to 'test' me against another driver type things as I feel they are often not real accurate. But I know that Mr. Matthnt says he is so much faster than me at any car and any track I had to see what I could do in the Anti-Ferrari McLaren.  Turns out I am faster than Him with the same PI....Oh wait...that cannot be possible Matthnt has told me this for 8 seasons how much 'better' he is than I.  SO, my only conclusion is...bags of sand must be in his trunk, he has lost his touch in GT, waiting for a certain PI hit number to then 'show' what he and the car are capable of? Not sure but something is awry and it was not my testing.

Also tested a couple other GT cars and have clearly found those cars to be MORE than capable of top 3 times.  

I do find it funny that so many consider themselves 'faster' than I. But I get in their cars at their PI and test for 5 - 10 laps and I am within 1/2 a second of their times in a car they have been running for a few hundred laps at this point. I don't consider myself to be an elite super robot driver like some. I do consider myself pretty damn good and a very strong understanding of racing, rules and etiquette.  iDK just saying.  I don't really care. I just enjoy the racing.

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:36 am

yeah, the P/DP builds aren't fair for 80% of the tracks. The Chevy is too fast and too EASY to drive fast. The other cars require highly perfected tunes and the most elite drivers to make competitive. I ran in the 18's at Sunset briefly with a tune I spent hours on in the Ultima. However, in the Chevy, I was doing low to mid 19's with a stock tune, other than full aero. The Chevy has all of 450 HP and twice the downforce. On tracks like Indy, Le Mans, and Sunset, the DP's would be competitive. On the rest, the chevy gains 1-2 seconds a lap in the corners and makes the other cars redundant.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:09 pm

F4H Diablo wrote:
yeah, the P/DP builds aren't fair for 80% of the tracks. The Chevy is too fast and too EASY to drive fast. The other cars require highly perfected tunes and the most elite drivers to make competitive. I ran in the 18's at Sunset briefly with a tune I spent hours on in the Ultima. However, in the Chevy, I was doing low to mid 19's with a stock tune, other than full aero. The Chevy has all of 450 HP and twice the downforce. On tracks like Indy, Le Mans, and Sunset, the DP's would be competitive. On the rest, the chevy gains 1-2 seconds a lap in the corners and makes the other cars redundant.

And its a shame the warnings and pryer notice of these discrepancys got passed over and rushed by.
because nobody listens to the crazy guy...
I feel bad for worminfested who is EVERYBIT... if not faster then me has been just plugging along staying quite while he is getting mushroom stamped by whoever took part in these builds
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:03 pm

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:
Matthnt wrote:
Laguna is the first track this season where the McLaren is decent.  I MAY be able to get a mid 26 but not the way I was running last night. Hired and I both ran a 27.356. We'll see but its still not a top 5 car(I think pole in GT will be a 1.25) I ran at 744 at the Alps last night and only managed a 40.583, an improvement but still way behind there at that track.  I'm not so concerned with winning GT races, if I was I would've picked something fast at 735 like a 458, GT2 rs, lambos etc.

If you ran 744PI at the Alps and only got a 1:40.5 then you my friend have lost your touch. I did some testing of a few cars Tuesday night and the McLaren was one of the cars tested. I built it at 741. With a tune I built in 10 minutes and spent another 10 getting to where the car felt ok for me I drove a hard 15 laps at Bernese and was turning Mid 1:39's. Thats at 741....So I built it to 740 took it to Sunset P Reverse and crashed a couple of times into the walls. But once I changed the tune a little then after about 6 laps I hit a 1:28.6 @740.  I personally do not like to 'test' me against another driver type things as I feel they are often not real accurate. But I know that Mr. Matthnt says he is so much faster than me at any car and any track I had to see what I could do in the Anti-Ferrari McLaren.  Turns out I am faster than Him with the same PI....Oh wait...that cannot be possible Matthnt has told me this for 8 seasons how much 'better' he is than I.  SO, my only conclusion is...bags of sand must be in his trunk, he has lost his touch in GT, waiting for a certain PI hit number to then 'show' what he and the car are capable of? Not sure but something is awry and it was not my testing.

Also tested a couple other GT cars and have clearly found those cars to be MORE than capable of top 3 times.  

I do find it funny that so man consider themselves 'faster' than I. But I get in their cars at their PI and test for 5 - 10 laps and I am within 1/2 a second of their times in a car they have been running for a few hundred laps at this point. I don't consider myself to be an elite super robot driver like some. I do consider myself pretty damn good and a very strong understanding of racing, rules and etiquette.  iDK just saying.  I don't really care. I just enjoy the racing.

Who sandbags in slow(er) cars?? I take accusations of me sand bagging very seriously especially since my only good result in a race came after many cars crashed at Sebring. So I would appreciate it if all of it stopped now.

Also the Alps has never been one of my strong tracks but it is one of your better tracks Pred so it's easy to see how you can get a better time around there than me. Your whole last paragraph Pred, I've been doing that in a 735pi 458 and have been within half a second or faster than your times on every track we've raced for the past 2 seasons but do you hear me accusing you of sand bagging? No, you dont.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:02 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
the builds for dp YOU HELPED WITH ARE SO FAR OFF ANYONE NOT IN THE CHEVY DOES NOT HAVE A CHANCE...
YOUR CAR BUILDING /scope of balance since your prima days has been compromised ....by your logic Im only time 9pi worse then Pinky aka axe man...laughable



Uhm I took the DP Mossler out to Sebring after the seebring race at 888PI and i ran a 1:51...... Which is faster than the P's. Had i not been asked to run in GTLM in the beaty that is a Porsche i would have ran the Mossler just to give it a chance in the field.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:24 pm

I went ahead and took a nice long look at every car that each driver was saying wasnt up to par on the forums and tried my hand at MLS with it. One was really really fast, but i can completely understand why the driver might be having trouble getting the times out of it because its incredibly weird to drive. The next i tested was stupid fast. And i do mean *stupid* fast. Rather than  scratch  and accidently insult the driver I went ahead onto my next test which happened to be... dadadadaaaa The McLaren. Well. Ill say this. It looks good on paper. 7.0 handling and also 9.2 acceleration and some other stats. Now, at Sebring at 741 i think it was I built it with as much weight out as i could and i was running about . 3-.5 off of what i can run in my favorite car of all time in the Porsche. Could i have squeezed it out? Maybe .2 of it for one series of 6 or 7 laps. Could i have practiced and ran a 2:03.6 in my porsche... Probly. So at Sebring my best in the McLaren was around a 2:04.8 or so. I think mat said his best was a 2:04.9xx. So maybe i hit a steaming lap, or maybe it suits my driving style a bit better, or maybe its because Sebring is my test track for everything and i have done well over 1000 laps there. At the Alps i ran it in a lobby as well, might have even been with them? I know that Roscoe was there for sure. I ran like a 41 or a high 40. Was it ever going to run a 38 there? Heck no. Do i think it could have done better there? Im not the one to really say because im BAWLS at that track. Laguna looks like it could be a good track for the car, but in my testing it was the slowest that i had seen someone asking about its PI. Keeping it real i think Matt's a little faster than what he is doing in the car. But then again maybe he isnt that much faster than me anymore after last night when we were effing around in the RUF/GT2 and were less than a tenth off at equal PI.

idk im a little torn on it the more i think about it. But i mean. If its coming down to it than how about i make things kinda simple. Ill get in it at Matts PI sometime tonight and ill bust my arse in it. Ill run the best time i can possibly run and then ill snap a picture of it and PM it to Matt and Pred. I think that everyone can agree that Matt should be able to run a bit faster than me in anything. Depending on what time i hit it can be compared to what times he'll hit in race/qually etc. Sound good guys? We can put it to rest like that.
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SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS
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