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 SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS

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Matthnt



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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:34 pm

Manuel CR wrote:
I´m not used to complains, I always take what it comes to me, but I dont feel the PIRS is right.

Only 3 for my GT car?  thats only a flywheel, how I´m going to catch a second difference with you pred?  by the way yours dont reduce!!

No kidding. Constantly mid field in the McLaren getting 1 pi each race. Running a 6.9 handling car at Sebring and barely a 7.0 at Alps while most people are 7.2 or 7.3. 742 isn't enough for my car to compete yet I could've qualed 3rd at Alps in a 735 458...Pred and his "algorithm" for BOP adjustments lol! 

On your 2nd point: He'll never reduce his pi, ever
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:37 pm

Manuel CR wrote:
I´m not used to complains, I always take what it comes to me, but I dont feel the PIRS is right.


How in this world my GTLM Viper is faster than Wolfpack´s corvette?

Same P.I in GS?

Only 3 for my GT car?  thats only a flywheel, how I´m going to catch a second difference with you pred?  by the way yours dont reduce!!!!


The thing here is some people qualify just running a some lap to be there, I give my best that is why i use to be well in qual and then everybody gets me in the race, and their P.I is save.
I´ll qual as crap, to see if I get something!

At least you got some im on street tires not even sport tires as the rules and available car list states I have never driven a car that is so wishy washy but hey ill take it on the chin there is nothing else I can do.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:38 pm

Manuel CR wrote:
I´m not used to complains, I always take what it comes to me, but I dont feel the PIRS is right.


How in this world my GTLM Viper is faster than Wolfpack´s corvette?

Same P.I in GS?

Only 3 for my GT car?  thats only a flywheel, how I´m going to catch a second difference with you pred?  by the way yours dont reduce!!!!


The thing here is some people qualify just running a some lap to be there, I give my best that is why i use to be well in qual and then everybody gets me in the race, and their P.I is save.
I´ll qual as crap, to see if I get something!


 I'd say each class had one or two cars that were way out of alignment, cars I thought would be brought into greater equality earlier. So you weren't the only one scratching their head.  

Problem is, as I understand it, according to the data that Pred uses, is the performance potential.  His data strongly indicates that there is more performance to be had with some slower drivers in some cars that have lower P.I. than other drivers in the same cars with higher P.I..  This appears to be the slight flaw in the prs system and the place where common sense and experience should prevail. Raw data is great, but it can be blind to a fault, and that's when you should make a judgment call and fine tune what the data is telling you vs what reality is.  

You have to go through a few tracks as well before you can settle on what the data is telling you.  Add into the mix poor performances and some sandbagging, and it takes a few races to get every car and driver balanced.

I think the P.I. is very close to correct across the board for Laguna, and qualifying will be more bunched up by the leaders at every track from here on out.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:17 pm

@ Pred - I see that my GTLM car has been reduced to a 785 PI but the minimum the car is capable of achieving is 787 (that's why it has been 787 until now) could you please adjust this so I will be within the rules at 787? Thank you.

@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

@blazeh why are you not on sport tires?? You should be able to build the car with sport tires.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:27 pm

I had the same issue with the noble, i stayed on street tires like for 4 races.  No way how install sport with low PI.

I'm always the nice guy here, but as I use to organize some races, I Know how difficult is to get everything ready, but NEVER the guy in charge have to be with the best car.   Has to be in the middle of the pack to avoid be pointed and questioned, and Then can bring the fast guys to that pack and the slower upthere.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:30 pm

PI is not a public discussion. I will clarify briefly.

Bernese Alps is not great track to get performance Data. Many racers get damage. Others don't really push to save from getting any damage. Some cars do well on different tracks. Some drivers do well at certain track, some cars and drivers put more effort into certain tracks, some drivers make attempts to 'game' the system. I can see certain racers who have builds that I know they know could be better and faster. I am sure they are waiting for a certain 'hit' number on PI to bring out that build. The system is fine. Some racers can't finish half a race without crashing, some haven to gone more than 10 laps without damage. This is not a PI problem this is a driver problem. The B.O.P performance is working very well. Across the whole field in all classes the racing has been extraordinary and very close. That shows the B.O.P is effective. Not perfect but effective. I am still collecting data each race.

See ya at the Laguna Seca.

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SP33D RAC3R 28x



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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:37 pm

Extremely close racing for the lead (cars never touched)
GT
#54 predator USMC
#84 SP33D RAC3R 28x

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:36 pm

Pinky and the brain?
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:39 pm

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
Extremely close racing for the lead (cars never touched)
GT
#54 predator USMC
#84 SP33D RAC3R 28x

why you don't have livery for this??


i think its mandatory for livery rules
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:43 pm

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
@ Pred - I see that my GTLM car has been reduced to a 785 PI but the minimum the car is capable of achieving is 787 (that's why it has been 787 until now) could you please adjust this so I will be within the rules at 787? Thank you.

@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

@blazeh why are you not on sport tires?? You should be able to build the car with sport tires.

Brie anyone....
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:44 pm

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:
Pinky and the brain?

Lol ...Valentine's ryders lmbo
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:49 pm

ASQ BerpDator wrote:

why you don't have livery for this??


i think  its mandatory for livery rules

That's not required, but it's a good thing to add, particularly if your car has those shutoffs modeled.  I have that on my GTLM livery, for example:



Have seen people do a pair of red dots and those labels as well.....
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Matthnt



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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:51 pm

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

Yes it can, as a 3,000lb tank of a gt car with nearly zero weight taken out of it. Tried that style of build in testing after adjustments from the last two races and the times were slower compared to a 740 build sainted sent me before the Sebring race so I'll be fighting for 12th or worse again at Laguna
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:52 pm

AAR GTDon wrote:
Manuel CR wrote:
I´m not used to complains, I always take what it comes to me, but I dont feel the PIRS is right.


How in this world my GTLM Viper is faster than Wolfpack´s corvette?

Same P.I in GS?

Only 3 for my GT car?  thats only a flywheel, how I´m going to catch a second difference with you pred?  by the way yours dont reduce!!!!


The thing here is some people qualify just running a some lap to be there, I give my best that is why i use to be well in qual and then everybody gets me in the race, and their P.I is save.
I´ll qual as crap, to see if I get something!


 I'd say each class had one or two cars that were way out of alignment, cars I thought would be brought into greater equality earlier. So you weren't the only one scratching their head.  

Problem is, as I understand it, according to the data that Pred uses, is the performance potential.  His data strongly indicates that there is more performance to be had with some slower drivers in some cars that have lower P.I. than other drivers in the same cars with higher P.I..  This appears to be the slight flaw in the prs system and the place where common sense and experience should prevail. Raw data is great, but it can be blind to a fault, and that's when you should make a judgment call and fine tune what the data is telling you vs what reality is.  

You have to go through a few tracks as well before you can settle on what the data is telling you.  Add into the mix poor performances and some sandbagging, and it takes a few races to get every car and driver balanced.

I think the P.I. is very close to correct across the board for Laguna, and qualifying will be more bunched up by the leaders at every track from here on out.

I swear I've heard this before...OHH YEAH TWO MONTHS AGO BEFORE THE SEASON IN A POST THAT GOT ERASED I SAID THE SAME THING....

The line getting turned on has made all pryer data obsolete...
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:00 pm

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:07 pm

Manuel CR wrote:

Thats why my butt is so tight
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:11 pm

Matthnt wrote:
SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

Yes it can, as a 3,000lb tank of a gt car with nearly zero weight taken out of it. Tried that style of build in testing after adjustments from the last two races and the times were slower compared to a 740 build sainted sent me before the Sebring race so I'll be fighting for 12th or worse again at Laguna

Ok gotcha. Didn't know the details, just knew it could have a better handing rating at a lower pi. I really liked the car but it didnt make the cut simply bc it was a mclaren.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:53 pm

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
@ Pred - I see that my GTLM car has been reduced to a 785 PI but the minimum the car is capable of achieving is 787 (that's why it has been 787 until now) could you please adjust this so I will be within the rules at 787? Thank you.

@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

@blazeh why are you not on sport tires?? You should be able to build the car with sport tires.

I wish home skillet
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:11 pm

Wow Bimmer and R, B, are rolling over in there fscs graves...
Three wins in a row no pi hit...hmmm
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:03 pm

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
Matthnt wrote:
SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:
@matt the McLaren gets higher than a 6.9 and 7.0 at 742pi. In fact the one i built and considered running had higher than that at 735 (I only tested cars at 735).

Yes it can, as a 3,000lb tank of a gt car with nearly zero weight taken out of it. Tried that style of build in testing after adjustments from the last two races and the times were slower compared to a 740 build sainted sent me before the Sebring race so I'll be fighting for 12th or worse again at Laguna

Ok gotcha. Didn't know the details, just knew it could have a better handing rating at a lower pi. I really liked the car but it didnt make the cut simply bc it was a mclaren.

I only picked it because I knew it wasn't great at base PI and to prove that it's not a good car without help from a whole lot of added PI, so far it stinks everywhere as I expected it to. Yet I won't see competitive adjustments for a few more races I suspect.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:17 pm

Speed has taken a PI hit from where he started to below the base. I do not have that Unicorn car so I am not real sure what PI I have to give or take with the car.   I think at Sunset P there were 2 or 3 drivers in GT that could have won that race over Speedracer, I think at Sebring there was probably 2 that had the cars 1 had the skill but didn't show the other driver has a DNF fetish. At Bernese I think I could have got that win. I know there was another who had the car to do it but he got damage. Speedracer is not untouchable. He simply makes less mistakes and thus finds wins he maybe otherwise may not have gotten.  We as a field of racers have to give 100%. I gave every damn thing I had at Bernese and could not get by him. We battle less that 50 - 100 feet apart for 40 of 50 laps. I know for a fact that a driver or two have the cars to do much better than they are. The telemetry shows that.  How is it I can see some drivers constantly at 90% -140% of traction in corners...corner after corner then I see another driver at 75% - 90% in those same corners. I see almost all driver get on the gas hard out of certain corners, brake at certain points consistently...Then I see a driver  get on the gas later and brake earlier thus turning a slower lap.  Then I get in the car. I build the car to the same PI and I can turn a lap very close to that drivers faster lap after only 10 laps with a quickie tune. Sorry but I know these 'certain' drivers are capable of running faster if they PUSH their cars. I am not going to make it easy to win.

Also want to say this.  I have said for a long time. It takes time to get enough data that a car and driver can have the correct B.O.P that gives them a front running capable car. Some drivers get it quicker than others because they find it in themselves and the car faster. Others take longer. If racers stayed in the same car for more than 1 season you would see that once your there you are there and it's up to you the racer to produce a result and your PI doesn't get bumped.  I had a terrible fun a few times. I did not give myself more PI to accommodate for a long string of less that good finishes. No, I stayed right where I was and had to figure it out. Now that I am battling for a top 5 or a win I should lose PI...Nah.  It is up to the racers to race HARD, race Clean, stay on track. If a racer gets damage that is not the PI...If a racer keeps going off track and thus falling out of contention that is not PI, if a racer is racing at 80% of his ability that is not PI.  I have been running this system for many years now. I have a very strong understanding of what I see when I watch the replays. When I see certain builds on cars or certain items I know to be performance zappers on cars. ESPECIALLY when I know the racer knows better.  I have seen so many racers do things to 'game' the system or try to 'Game' the system that I do see it most of the time and even when the sheet recommends a certain PI based on the data I put in...The replay shows me that the truth is not always in a lap time.

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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:48 pm

Even if the racer is a good clean racer thats pushing his car every where to try to keep up with the middle of the pack or a certain race that had two clean races and still not enough pi??...I hear what your saying but in my case im on a different playing field and im qualifying at the middle to the back of the pack and trying to keep up with guys that 1 1/2-2 seconds faster..I guess I should just go slow sand bag and hope for the best....when given the proper pi I have been very competitive and there to win a race but right now I don't have a chance with guys running 775pi just my 2cents
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:17 pm

Ever time i take two steps from the forums something happens.  scratch 

I got all day tomorrow to help work out these issues and thats exactly what im going to do. Mark it fellas.

To play both sides and add my two cents... i feel you guys :c

Now that my woes as a driver is over.... As an admin ill say that im going to put what we currently have under a micro scope tonight and tomorrow and possibly into the next day.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:03 pm

No ill will from me im just saying as for myself im not in the usual car and I certainly understand I chose it..with that being said I just want to compete to win a race not to just be on the track.
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PostSubject: Re: SEASON 12 RACE 3 BERNESE ALPS   Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:11 pm

i feel you Blahz. Keeping things real and honest though the Alps is not a track for every car. I'd say that the Alps and Le Mans are the two tracks that are most biased towards certain types of cars. In a perfect world a car that has the largest disadvantage at one would have the largest at the other. But like i said im going to go over everything with a fine tooth comb by thursday/friday.
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