SEASON X RACE 10 Nurburgring Gran Prix GT/GS 50 LAPS - ST 25 LAPS

Matthnt wrote:

Most of these arguments being made aren't very sound.
I dont know why you gt drivers seem to think that your race is more important than a gs drivers race.  Some of us would be fighting for the gt championship and gt race wins if we were in that class.

We can't disappear from the track. Pick your spots, hit your lines and be off into the distance.  More thsn likely you're lap times may fall in gs traffic. It happens, get over it.

Then you should have picked GT instead of GS. Letting off to let the faster car class pass you in return for them being courteous, considerate, and patient is a form of mutual respect.  A give and get if you will.

If this unspoken code is not present I'm treating you just like a GT car. FOHWTBS

Guys there are TWO races going on at once. GS cars do not have to yield for GT and should not be expected to. The passing of cars outside your class comes down to strategy. The GS guy can choose to lift, or go wide to let the GT guy by if they feel its the best thing for them to do, however they are not expected or required to do so. The GT guys are required to make a clean pass, as they are the passing car, however whether or not they do it in a corner or in a straight is up to them and their strategy. If you see a trail of GS cars racing dont expect them to left, coast to the high line, or dump themselves into the dirt to let you by. Its your job as the passing driver to realize the circumstances and figure out whats the best way to pass. You take on that responsibility when you sign up to run GT. I have employed many strategies and theories during races to try to figure out which ones help in what situations. Sometimes if im at the end of a trail of GS cars ill take a high line and set myself up knowing that the others will hold their line while the GT car forces a pass and slows them both down. See, strategy. Now, in that case the reason i slide over and move myself is to benefit *myself* however i try to be a courteous driver to the GT guys. Fun thought, Raceboy is extremely fast and consistent. How many times do you hear him say "Im going to catch you there but wait until there to pass you" I hear it all the time. And his patience pays off because he knows how to not lose time and what will cost him more. I think multitasking is the key. Thinking while you race. Regardless 9 times out of 10 you will lose time when being passed by a GT car or vise versa. There is no correct format or rule as to what class should so what. Both classes are racing and both classes have to *be strategic*. Take the action that will help you the most in the longer run. If that means a GS guy thinks the right thing to do is hold his line and keep race pace then he has that right. If a GT guy thinks he needs to push the issue and pass in a corner that is his right. If one or the other thinks its faster in their situation to passively let the other by that is also their choice. We hear about this argument every season and its never going to end but i hope that this mitigates the drama and helps calm the hotter heads.

Sgt Tethras wrote:

Matthnt wrote:

Most of these arguments being made aren't very sound.
I dont know why you gt drivers seem to think that your race is more important than a gs drivers race.  Some of us would be fighting for the gt championship and gt race wins if we were in that class.

We can't disappear from the track. Pick your spots, hit your lines and be off into the distance.  More thsn likely you're lap times may fall in gs traffic. It happens, get over it.

Then you should have picked GT instead of GS. Letting off to let the faster car class pass you in return for them being courteous, considerate, and patient is a form of mutual respect.  A give and get if you will.

If this unspoken code is not present I'm treating you just like a GT car.  FOHWTBS

Also Matt is saying that choosing the slower class does not mean you are a slower driver. He is saying that you should respect his fight for his championship just as he would respect yours. HOwever as stated below you can say its a respect thing, and in many cases it is, but it is not disrespectful to hold your line and race your race. Just as he accepts the responsibility of being passed you take the responsibility of doing the passing, you cant expect him or any GS driver to make your job extra easy if you dont expect to make his job detrimental to his race which he doesnt have to. Its a give and get relationship.

6.17 ON TRACK PROTOCOL
6.17.1 P ASSING
It is the responsibility of both the overtaking Driver and the Driver being overtaken to assure safe overtaking at racing speeds. A car traveling alone may use the full width of the track. Overtaking may be either right or left depending on the conditions of the moment.

This is taken from the ALMS rule book (the actual rule book for the real life series, not the one for this series we are in.)  Note this doesn't say that the slower class have to let off to let a faster class pass you, NOR does it say that the faster class needs to be patient, conservative, courteous, etc to the slower class.  

However it DOES say that there needs to be a MUTUAL agreement  (mutual respect) between BOTH.  See my last post for what I reference this as.

Sgt Tethras wrote:

Matthnt wrote:

Most of these arguments being made aren't very sound.
I dont know why you gt drivers seem to think that your race is more important than a gs drivers race.  Some of us would be fighting for the gt championship and gt race wins if we were in that class.

We can't disappear from the track. Pick your spots, hit your lines and be off into the distance.  More thsn likely you're lap times may fall in gs traffic. It happens, get over it.

Then you should have picked GT instead of GS. Letting off to let the faster car class pass you in return for them being courteous, considerate, and patient is a form of mutual respect.  A give and get if you will.

If this unspoken code is not present I'm treating you just like a GT car.  FOHWTBS

You've been back for what? 2 races? I've raced GT too, did you forget that?. Theres no challenge in finishing 2nd to raceboy almost every weekend.

Matthnt wrote:

Sgt Tethras wrote:

Matthnt wrote:

Most of these arguments being made aren't very sound.
I dont know why you gt drivers seem to think that your race is more important than a gs drivers race.  Some of us would be fighting for the gt championship and gt race wins if we were in that class.

We can't disappear from the track. Pick your spots, hit your lines and be off into the distance.  More thsn likely you're lap times may fall in gs traffic. It happens, get over it.

Then you should have picked GT instead of GS. Letting off to let the faster car class pass you in return for them being courteous, considerate, and patient is a form of mutual respect.  A give and get if you will.

If this unspoken code is not present I'm treating you just like a GT car.  FOHWTBS

You've been back for what? 2 races? I've raced GT too, did you forget that?. Theres no challenge in finishing 2nd to raceboy almost every weekend.

This is not about race boy. This is not about me being back for 3 races so far. This is about mutual respect and understanding between two race classes


6.17 ON TRACK PROTOCOL
6.17.1 P ASSING
It is the responsibility of both the overtaking Driver and the Driver being overtaken to assure safe overtaking at racing speeds. A car traveling alone may use the full width of the track. Overtaking may be either right or left depending on the conditions of the moment.

This is taken from the ALMS rule book (the actual rule book for the real life series, not the one for this series we are in.) Note this doesn't say that the slower class have to let off to let a faster class pass you, NOR does it say that the faster class needs to be patient, conservative, courteous, etc to the slower class.

However it DOES say that there needs to be a MUTUAL agreement (mutual respect) between BOTH.

All I did was answer you about why I chose GS or GT...I chose not to finish 2nd nearly every race

I give your class all the room in the world when I can.

Sgt Tethras wrote:

Hiredgun308 wrote:

If you went 3 corners why not follow that prove I was just as fast as the gt car through that section so why force it. I shouldn't have to lift to let a gt car by why don't the gt wait for a better place. There are gt cars that passed  without making gs cars loose time or very little. Raceboy kamikaze JPN  blahzy got passing a GS down to a science. Sorry for throwing your guys name out but you guys do it very good.

I know where I was spun and it was going into the left hander.

I'm done talking about it its done. just a FYI I'm NOT going to lift for gt cars you can wait or you can race me through the corners your choice.

I was trying to be considerate and courteous but now that I see your position, I'm not gonna be polite and yielding.  Im going to pressure you and be real aggressive like any other GT car from now on.

Lol is that a threat or promise? It don't matter either way just funny. I for see your idea failing and your feelings getting hurt. I'll just inform you now I give 2 craps. LET'S GET IT ON !!!!!!!!!

am i missing something her? sgt is back? can some on plz fill me in on the history

jpnvr4 wrote:

am i missing something her? sgt is back? can some on  plz fill me in on the history

he use to race here with a diff name way back from what i was told by Blahzay.

What Im trying to get at is this:  If I see you in a neck to neck battle with the position in front of you then I'm gonna lay off and be patient, courteous, and considerate.  This was not the case last night.  There was a distance of at least 8 car lengths between Hired and the place in front of him.  

Would he have lost a smidgen of time by allowing a pass? YES, but so would the guy in front of him when it was time to pass him.  So it would have equaled itself out.  

Instead he chose to battle a faster car class.  Not only did it cost me time to the position behind me (PRED) but it also cost Hired time to the position in front of him.  And AGAIN when he decided to battle another GT car (PRED).  It's just plain idiocy.  You have the right to that idiocy though, 100%.  Just don't have the nerve to whine about it when you end up being on the $H!T end of the stick

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

jpnvr4 wrote:

am i missing something her? sgt is back? can some on  plz fill me in on the history

he use to race here with a diff name way back from what i was told by Blahzay.

Used to be xx M Rossi xx. Last season I did was season 6 laguna seca

6.1 - PASSING
It is the responsibility of both the overtaking Driver and the Driver being overtaken to assure safe overtaking at racing speeds. However, the burden of a clean pass lies more squarely on the passing driver.

6.3 - UNJUSTIFIABLE RISK
Any participant who, in the sole opinion of the Series Administrator or Race Director, engages in any behavior deemed to represent an unjustifiable risk or reckless endangerment may be warned or penalized.

Fscs rules apparently you didn't read them.

Sgt Tethras wrote:

What Im trying to get at is this:  If I see you in a neck to neck battle with the position in front of you then I'm gonna lay off and be patient, courteous, and considerate.  This was not the case last night.  There was a distance of at least 8 car lengths between Hired and the place in front of him.  

Would he have lost a smidgen of time by allowing a pass? YES, but so would the guy in front of him when it was time to pass him.  So it would have equaled itself out.  

Instead he chose to battle a faster car class.  Not only did it cost me time to the position behind me (PRED) but it also cost Hired time to the position in front of him.  And AGAIN when he decided to battle another GT car (PRED).  It's just plain idiocy.  You have the right to that idiocy though, 100%.  Just don't have the nerve to whine about it when you end up being on the $H!T end of the stick

Or you could have waited 2 corners and not cost me any time. For some reason you believe your time is more important than mine. I think not.

I think with in a hundred is close enough to a neck and neck race don't you

Sgt Tethras wrote:

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

jpnvr4 wrote:

am i missing something her? sgt is back? can some on  plz fill me in on the history

he use to race here with a diff name way back from what i was told by Blahzay.

Used to be xx M Rossi xx.  Last season I did was season 6 laguna seca

yeah dude he used to be rossi lol.

in regards to the conversations being held, you guys flatter me using me as an example or mentioning me so often  

QlutchElectro wrote:

Ya Hannibal you were the one lagging really bad even cause catastrophic failure to my car. No hard feelings but roscoe is right if everyone around you is lagging it is your connection

how when everything is off at my place there was no wifi or nothing only xbox vator was in front of me he was not lagging on my sceen

well its okay know will be ready for next week

Raceboy77 wrote:

in regards to the conversations being held, you guys flatter me using me as an example or mentioning me so often  

SHM .. had to be you . lol

He is used so often because he s very clean driver and also very timid and patient. He uses his head and makes smart moves and it shows. I have no shame in saying that he does a very good job of showing race knowledge and etiquette. On the topic of him, he is courteous to the GS guys (that i know of) and we are courteous back. Theres an example of it being a two way street from the other end of the road. Just saying. Its got to be both ways.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

He is used so often because he s very clean driver and also very timid and patient. He uses his head and makes smart moves and it shows. I have no shame in saying that he does a very good job of showing race knowledge and etiquette. On the topic of him, he is courteous to the GS guys (that i know of) and we are courteous back. Theres an example of it being a two way street from the other end of the road. Just saying. Its got to be both ways.

THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING!!!

Sgt Tethras wrote:

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

He is used so often because he s very clean driver and also very timid and patient. He uses his head and makes smart moves and it shows. I have no shame in saying that he does a very good job of showing race knowledge and etiquette. On the topic of him, he is courteous to the GS guys (that i know of) and we are courteous back. Theres an example of it being a two way street from the other end of the road. Just saying. Its got to be both ways.

THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING!!!

Thats a perfectly good message to have however, perhaps a wording issue, conveyed a tone that downplayed the effects your race has on the GS race. Perhaps that was not your intention but your words gave me that feeling. No hard feelings or anything just thought i would bring that to light incase others got the same feeling.

But yes, if you are calm cool and respectful in understanding that you cant expect us to throw away out race to help yours then we are on the same page. Just think things out while going 100mph and everything will be gravy

Race Recap is on its way soon as all officiating has been completed barring any last minute issues.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

Race Recap is on its way soon as all officiating has been completed barring any last minute issues.

First thing in the morning.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

Race Recap is on its way soon as all officiating has been completed barring any last minute issues.

First thing in the morning.

Awww c'mon!

I figure it's better to let people cool off before any penalties or non penalties be presented.