Interesting Concept No Public Mic Racing

Always have to keep in mind too that not all of us are trained professional drivers

Raceboy77 wrote:

Always have to keep in mind too that not all of us are trained professional drivers

That's too true.

I see this playing out a couple of ways: It could work flawlessly, it could fail horribly or somewhere in the middle. The fact that no one would be talking to each other is one huge factor. I for one expect an apology or at least some sort of verbal communication when my car gets hit by another driver. I always say "sorry" or "my bad", something to that affect. But if we are all in different parties or just not talking at all I will take another driver hitting my car personally and I may end up pinning said person against the wall for the rest of the race.

I voted for terrible idea because it is one

I don't understand why you would want to block communication. I don't see benefit from doing it. OK, so it's debatable whether it's absolutely necessary, but I don't see any actual reasons to turn it off. If the chatter distracts you too much you can always turn your own headset off. There is no need to force everyone to do the same.

Matthnt wrote:

Raceboy77 wrote:

personally, i vote no. we have all witnessed what happens sometimes when someone doesn't call their pass, communicate to a GS car where they're going, or someone just doesn't know anyone's beside them in general. i say since we have a resource, use it. we already are cut from the feeling of the car, track, etc.

+1


We all have chat volume knobs on our headsets so if the banter of the race is actually distracting, you can turn your chat volume down so that it won't disturb you.

As far as the general communication issue with gaming and real-life, real teams communicate with their driver telling them about who's coming up behind them or who is around them. We cannot do that if everyone is in there own chat room. There are no blue flags on Forza to tell you that a faster car is coming behind you. This would put both classes of cars at an even greater risk of hitting each other.

+1

bigdutyDMomoney wrote:

I don't understand why you would want to block communication. I don't see benefit from doing it. OK, so it's debatable whether it's absolutely necessary, but I don't see any actual reasons to turn it off. If the chatter distracts you too much you can always turn your own headset off. There is no need to force everyone to do the same.

I don't think that why he posted this. I think he is looking at it as an opportunity to bring a little more realism into the races. Plus it adds a benefit to having a team rather than running solo. I think it worth a shot. It may end up being terrible simply because the drivers here but I have always wanted to try this out. It seems like a great way to make people pay more attention and in my opinion could cause less wrecks and arguments than we have now Right now everyone takes it for granted that someone will call out a move before they make it or let someone know when they are on their inside. I personally don't always do that because sometimes its just obvious what is going on. I've also had people come by me when they don't give warning but I know they're there. Its all about just being aware. As long as everyone pays attention there will be no issues. Then again like I said before with the drivers here it has the possibility to fail miserably.

This isn't saying that everyone here is terrible. I like racing here. It is still my favorite series and you guys are still the most fun to race with, its just that many people don't understand simple racing rules and strategies. That's the first thing you need when attempting this. People to know HOW to race before communication is only between teams. All that said I still say its worth a shot.

OK, I can see why you say it would be more realistic. Real life drivers don't have a direct line of communication with drivers on other teams.

However, we're not professional drivers. We're just doing this for fun. The whole point of making the series as realistic as possible, IMHO is to make it more fun. I don't see how blocking communication will make it more fun.

I would like to think that blocking communication would make people more aware and drive safer just as much as you. Anything to do that would be awesome. But I just don't think it will work. Taking away tools that make us safer will not make us safer. To draw a tuning analogy, that's like taking grip away from the front tires because the rear tires are sliding. It's approaching the problem completely backwards.

When we driver we are acting as a driver but also a crew chief. we communicate where race control and other people would be yapping in our ear. no driver really races silent cept in cases at places like lemans when there is a brake in traffic for some long portion of time.

I suggest we could try to implement it in ST and have people form up teams to try that out as well since 16 to a lobby makes it easier to have teammates in the same lobby and there isnt a difference in class to deal with. In single class racing you dont need to communicate as much anyways.

Dr PiiHB wrote:

Matthnt wrote:

The only problem Phib with using the trap times is it only tells you about the car behind you for position, not the car behind you that's about to lap you.

I know. That's why there's a mirror and track map. There are plenty of tools to know where cars are around you. Many people turn them off then use that as an excuse when they hit you. Its uncalled for is all I am saying.

The view I use when I race don't have any mirrors. jfyi. I don't know if someone there till their on my rear quarter panel. The track map don't tell you what side they may be on. Plus race teams have spotter to tell them what's happening.

This is exactly why I posed this question. I appreciate everyone weighing in on the subject.

I will not be FORCING anything except the rules being followed.

I race in car and the only info I have up is the distance marker. I am always aware who is in front and behind me. I watch the car in front of me a long ways up as I am coming up on them. When I get to them I know where I can get beside, underneath, around them based upon the deductions made the previous corners in pursuit of the racer I am intending to pass GS or GT. I myself don't use the mic during the race and usually turn it off after about lap 3 once everyone is past the initial start. I have learned by racing many of you who I can do what with and who I cannot. As I am sure the same can be said about me. We all have different tendencies.


I want us to all improve...I like the idea of either no restarts (UNLESS LAG RELATED), or no Mics. Many I think use the restarts as a crutch to be extra aggressive at the start. I don't know why we couldn't just start the race and go. Always someone trying to do too much in the first turn or two. I often wonder if we had no restarts would racers be forced to think that extra second before they try something super risky on lap 1. No restarts MAKE a racer drive more realistically.

I think the mic is good but like I ALWAYS say there are a lot of variables that we must deal with that real racers do not and others that they deal with that here we do not. We have racers with several different views available, on screen aids, controller, wheel, tv size, sound quality, hell even personal vision...all play a part in on track awareness, ability, tactics, and speed.


EDIT IN: I do want to add this in....We are racing and in racing accidents do happen. I hope we all are AWARE of that. If someone does hit you it is not personal (that i know of) There is no reason to go off the deep end cussing someone out, and just generally making matters worse. A cooler head on track is always better.

I again do appreciate the thoughtful talk on the subject matter.

Interesting comments. Having conducted a few series without mics, I can tell you we've had less contact on average than in more traditional series with mics. The first round of the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge last Monday was no exception. 2 full rooms with 2 classes of cars in a long race with different drive trains, and not a single crash.

If racing with mics was critical for safer driving, than without mics should be a total desaster. But it's not. This isn't an opinion, but a demonstrated fact.

People tend to be more careful about making a pass when they can't simple shout out, "I'm on your right!" as they bully their way down on your inside. Too often people take license with this form of passing and expect you to yield even before the pass is made. This tends to falsely place the responsibility of the pass on those being passed, because, "I told you I was on your right!" And this goes against standard racing rules. The responsibility of a safe pass rest squarely on the passer, not the passee. Even more so in the case of multi-class races where there is a slower class on the track. Slower cars are not expected to alter their racing line or slow down for the faster cars. This is for several reasons. 1. They are racing too. 2.It's a safety issue. People get into trouble when they have to second guess what the other guy is going to do rather than what he is expected to do.

A key aspect to realistic racing (missing in Forza) is the skill and technique of setting up for a clean pass. This usually takes a few laps and some patience. It is a skill that is not used in Forza because you can always just tell your opponent when you are going to try to pass. But this is no guarntee your opponent will undertsand you. He might not here you, he might think left side when you said right, you might say right when you meant left, and so on.

At the IFCA we run most all of our series with mics, but we do reserve at least one series without mics. It's a nice switch that does add an extra element of realism that can not be gotten any other way. It's not for everyone, just as running without a racing line or TCS isn't. But if you want that extra dose of realism that can only come from racing like the real racers without talking to your opponent during the race, then you have to give it try.

Personally I seldom care to tell anyone when I'm going to pass them even with a mic. I just don't see the point. If I'm making a correct pass, they will have no say in the matter, right Pred? lol

GTDOn you have swung me back. I was on the yes side then flopped to the no side now im back on the yes. I would really want to try it. Exhibition raceeeee before next season we can test this and break up the off season and its a fun thing annnndddd it can help get PIs acclimated faster. Maybe in the week off we have coming up we could have a few practice sessions with no mics.

We can always have some practice room extended races to try it out. Instead of 7 laps bump it to 10 laps and have at it.

And yes, if a pass is done correctly then the person being passed can defend properly but cannot block. So, yeah once a racer has committed to a pass the pass is made weather the passee likes it or not. That's racin'.

I know some people 'get bored' if they can't chit chat or have random chatter. That's what party chat would be for. Those who want to talk join. Teams want to have a team only chat then they can. Everyone else can focus on the music of motor and transmission sounds while paying full attention to the racing at hand.

I know of some who race with music on or whatever. To me this is what makes the music racer dangerous. He is missing a very valuable element of racing. You cannot hear a car near or even your own car and since we have no tactile feel the only element is visual. This makes for a disaster in the making. That's the driver who is tuned out to the race and is listening to music and is SURPRISED when a car is besides him in a corner because his attention was not fully immersed in the race. This is how incidents occur in sim that won't in real. No racer listens to music while in a competitive event.

I think a fair solution if this were implemented would be all mics off. Enter a party chat with those who are interested, into a team chat with your team. In the end those who want to talk can and those who don't, don't.

Just for clarity nothing is final, just weighing options.

AAR GTDon wrote:

Interesting comments. Having conducted a few series without mics, I can tell you we've had less contact on average than in more traditional series with mics. The first round of the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge last Monday was no exception. 2 full rooms with 2 classes of cars in a long race with different drive trains, and not a single crash.

If racing with mics was critical for safer driving, than without mics should be a total desaster. But it's not. This isn't an opinion, but a demonstrated fact.

People tend to be more careful about making a pass when they can't simple shout out, "I'm on your right!" as they bully their way down on your inside. Too often people take license with this form of passing and expect you to yield even before the pass is made. This tends to falsely place the responsibility of the pass on those being passed, because, "I told you I was on your right!" And this goes against standard racing rules. The responsibility of a safe pass rest squarely on the passer, not the passee. Even more so in the case of multi-class races where there is a slower class on the track. Slower cars are not expected to alter their racing line or slow down for the faster cars. This is for several reasons. 1. They are racing too. 2.It's a safety issue. People get into trouble when they have to second guess what the other guy is going to do rather than what he is expected to do.

A key aspect to realistic racing (missing in Forza) is the skill and technique of setting up for a clean pass. This usually takes a few laps and some patience. It is a skill that is not used in Forza because you can always just tell your opponent when you are going to try to pass. But this is no guarntee your opponent will undertsand you. He might not here you, he might think left side when you said right, you might say right when you meant left, and so on.

At the IFCA we run most all of our series with mics, but we do reserve at least one series without mics. It's a nice switch that does add an extra element of realism that can not be gotten any other way. It's not for everyone, just as running without a racing line or TCS isn't. But if you want that extra dose of realism that can only come from racing like the real racers without talking to your opponent during the race, then you have to give it try.

Personally I seldom care to tell anyone when I'm going to pass them even with a mic. I just don't see the point. If I'm making a correct pass, they will have no say in the matter, right Pred? lol

Thank you Don. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. Apparently I explain things poorly. Everyone seems to understand the way you said it better. So +1

i agree with pred and don as i also took part in the no mic race i was in gs with a room of st and the only contact was when pitting... i practiced the wrong track so that was a suprise the only thing i worry about is pit exit...some tracks that gets HARRY!!!! as in loyd and harry...

Dr PiiHB wrote:

bigdutyDMomoney wrote:

I don't understand why you would want to block communication. I don't see benefit from doing it. OK, so it's debatable whether it's absolutely necessary, but I don't see any actual reasons to turn it off. If the chatter distracts you too much you can always turn your own headset off. There is no need to force everyone to do the same.

I don't think that why he posted this. I think he is looking at it as an opportunity to bring a little more realism into the races. Plus it adds a benefit to having a team rather than running solo. I think it worth a shot. It may end up being terrible simply because the drivers here but I have always wanted to try this out. It seems like a great way to make people pay more attention and in my opinion could cause less wrecks and arguments than we have now Right now everyone takes it for granted that someone will call out a move before they make it or let someone know when they are on their inside. I personally don't always do that because sometimes its just obvious what is going on. I've also had people come by me when they don't give warning but I know they're there. Its all about just being aware. As long as everyone pays attention there will be no issues. Then again like I said before with the drivers here it has the possibility to fail miserably.

This isn't saying that everyone here is terrible. I like racing here. It is still my favorite series and you guys are still the most fun to race with, its just that many people don't understand simple racing rules and strategies. That's the first thing you need when attempting this. People to know HOW to race before communication is only between teams. All that said I still say its worth a shot.

+1,000,000,000

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

I know some people 'get bored' if they can't chit chat or have random chatter. That's what party chat would be for. Those who want to talk join. Teams want to have a team only chat then they can. Everyone else can focus on the music of motor and transmission sounds while paying full attention to the racing at hand.

I know of some who race with music on or whatever. To me this is what makes the music racer dangerous. He is missing a very valuable element of racing. You cannot hear a car near or even your own car and since we have no tactile feel the only element is visual. This makes for a disaster in the making. That's the driver who is tuned out to the race and is listening to music and is SURPRISED when a car is besides him in a corner because his attention was not fully immersed in the race. This is how incidents occur in sim that won't in real. No racer listens to music while in a competitive event.

I race with music playing (not crappy Forza music) and I am proud to say it! I can hear the car just fine, the popping of the clutch, the shifting of the gears, the screeching of the tires on even the slightest turns (have my sfx focus set to "Tires" because of drifting). I know not everyone rocks Turtle Beaches, but either people crank their game volume or don't necessarily blast their music. Personally I'll go mad without some tunes. Just a constant rev and the occasional tire skidding for nearly two hours - YEAH, NO. I only zone out to just the car and the track when something decent is playing. Pandoara can be on and turn to country music for god knows what reason and I'll be like "hmm, whatever, coolstory..." without even turning my head or budging. Hell I race irl with music, and that's cranked up. Granted in reality, sounds are much fuller and louder. I think I do just about everything with at least a mildly audible music playing.

Worst I can think of is people who listen to hardcore stuff, like death metal or drum n' bass or dark dubstep. Then I can see a valid reason as to why someone might drive more aggressively, but not more carelessly... unless they're baked or something. Wait, wouldn't it be the other way around then?



I don't know why I felt it necessary to write solely on that aspect, but something about basically saying "people who race with music playing are dangerous" kinda got under my skin.

I started a post about this very issue about 5 seasons ago, some drivers think they're funny or other-wise entertaining instead of turning your mic off tell people to STFU, its bad race etiquete. Lets penalize the chatter box driver(s) after the race. I dont talk during races because I'm racing!

Just ban talking during races.

BVR, I have been racing (real rubber and metal) as a hobbyist & licensed racer, SCCA instructor, Corner worker, flagger, race announcer...I have run the gamut, for a long time. My SCCA membership started in '93. Yea, long time. NASA in '01, TCRA in '98. Racing with music is NOT allowed in any sanctioned event beyond Autocrossing. This is fact. (Auotomotive, I can't speak for motorcycle racing) It is a distraction which is another fact. Even with autocrossing we do try to stress to the new members that rocking out while autocrossing is a disadvantage to them and a risk to others. So, I am a bit curious what type of racing you do that you race with your music really "cranked up"! RC racing or what?

However, what you choose to do in Forza is your choice. We have a penalty system if accidents are someones fault. (You have not started and finished a race in this series yet so no point in getting to deep)

But the subject of this post is not music, it is about the mic. Please let's not wander off the prime subject of this thread.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

BVR, I have been racing (real rubber and metal) as a hobbyist & licensed racer, SCCA instructor, Corner worker, flagger, race announcer...I have run the gamut, for a long time. My SCCA membership started in '93. Yea, long time. NASA in '01, TCRA in '98. Racing with music is NOT allowed in any sanctioned event beyond Autocrossing. This is fact. (Auotomotive, I can't speak for motorcycle racing) It is a distraction which is another fact. Even with autocrossing we do try to stress to the new members that rocking out while autocrossing is a disadvantage to them and a risk to others. So, I am a bit curious what type of racing you do that you race with your music really "cranked up"! RC racing or what?

However, what you choose to do in Forza is your choice. We have a penalty system if accidents are someones fault. (You have not started and finished a race in this series yet so no point in getting to deep)

But the subject of this post is not music, it is about the mic. Please let's not wander off the prime subject of this thread.

Track days, and the kind of racing you don't do on a track ;3
Also easy when your car just ever so closely grazes the legal decibel level limit. Music is the last thing you hear.

But yes. Well, the votes are in favor of running it off, so I definitely agree to the movement that we should try this out at least, experimentally in some sesh's.

Everyone needs to stop and listen to swans expert advice. Thank you swan for your words of wisdom.

BVR Swan wrote:

I definitely agree to the movement that we should try this out at least, experimentally in some sesh's.

And who is this WE you speak of? Have you joined a practice session this week? Last week? Made and finished one race as of yet? We?

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

BVR Swan wrote:

I definitely agree to the movement that we should try this out at least, experimentally in some sesh's.

And who is this WE you speak of? Have you joined a practice session this week? Last week? Made and finished one race as of yet? We?

FACE!!!!

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

BVR Swan wrote:

I definitely agree to the movement that we should try this out at least, experimentally in some sesh's.

And who is this WE you speak of? Have you joined a practice session this week? Last week? Made and finished one race as of yet? We?

Dafuq is with the tone bro?

I have a little thing called a life. Life > FM. Dunno what's your deal, coming at me and what not. I'd suggest you don't do it.

I am moving and we don't have internet and probably won't for a while. When and where I can get on, I will get on. Get over it.

I have done absolutely nothing wrong for you to be like that. >_> Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

+1 ... *Snatches popcorn*