Season 11 RACE 3 INDIANAPOLIS MOTOR SPEEDWAY

Blahzay xxl wrote:

[I had this happen to me its clean for qualifying, its clean lap according to forza but not for pred.

I can assure you it is not clean for qualifying getting 4 tires completely off track.  Getting 4 wheels completely off the track is cutting the corner in qual as well as during the race. I have no problem with 2 tires in the dirt and two on the curb. But if I can see any space between a tire and the curb or track surface it is cutting. An occasional cut is understandable. Two or Three in a row or 4 of 5 or 3 of 4 or cutting 2 corners the same lap then doing something similar the next lap is not.  Nothing different here than what you expect from real rubber carbon fibre and sanctioned races.  That's is ALL this series uses for example and applies as best we can to adopt to FM4 and FSCS.

I would call what Citizen was doing blatant. What Don did was mis-judging his turn in by  just a little & more often than can be allowed. Citizen was so deep cutting that another car could almost fit between him and the curb several times. Don was not that bad but he did cut. As we know a little off or a lot off is still off.

I say probably everyone cut the two corners at least once.

Now at Bernese you go ahead and cut..most corners are lined with walls on the inside.  @ Bernese you need to pay attention to drifting out wide between Lake Turn and Festival.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

Blahzay xxl wrote:

AAR GTDon wrote:

Wow, really? I was penalized for cutting corners?  That's a first. I guess I better figure out what cutting a corner really is.  Maybe Citizen can explain, he seems to be much better at it than me. lol

I had this happen to me its clean for qualifying, its clean lap according to forza but not for pred.

I can assure you it is not clean for qualifying getting 4 tires completely off track.  Getting 4 wheels completely off the track is cutting the corner in qual as well as during the race. I have no problem with 2 tires in the dirt and two on the curb. But if I can see any space between a tire and the curb or track surface it is cutting. An occasional cut is understandable. Two or Three in a row or 4 of 5 or 3 of 4 or cutting 2 corners the same lap then doing something similar the next lap is not.  Nothing different here than what you expect from real rubber carbon fibre and sanctioned races.  That's is ALL this series uses for example and applies as best we can to adopt to FM4 and FSCS.

I'm not really protesting, but REAL cutting the track has been something quite a bit different than whatever I did.  In real racing cutting the track, is literally doing just that, cutting the whole track to gain position. Running over curbs is never called.  If you don't believe me, watch the V8 Super Cars, or NASCAR at Infineon. lol NASCAR goes completely off the track at Infineon, and I would bet money you would penalize me for doing the same.  They do it because its faster to allow the car to slide wide than to stay on the actual racing surface.  You know the right hand corner I speak of, where you better get back on the track quick before you hit the wall.

But no problem, I'd rather know now, so that I can be the little snitch later, right hired?

@tetris ....wrong thread.....you wanna play bud hit me up...scratch that ill HIT you up

Matthnt wrote:

Gtr start not good. Leader was crusing between 80 and 85 heading into the last corner. Slowed down to 70 before where the pit wall is and I had given leadfoot plenty of room in front of me expecting the speed to stay between 80 and 85. I damaged his car. If I get a penalty so be it but maintaining speed before the go is given must happen.

This needs to be addressed. Happened in the GS race as well as the GTR a lobby start.

I allow the same wide berth at Infineon also.  So no problem there.  Similar to the wide track out on Indy as you exit turn 7 was allowed.  I understand what your saying Don. I see them cut the corner also in DTM (pretty spectacular how they hit em!! BUT they make sure to get that outside tire to not go beyond the inside of the curb.

Hell at most tracks they design the curbs so that if you do that you could be looking at suspension failure.

Now some tracks they 'help' with that close cutting the inside line. For example Road Atlanta Turn 2 where there is additional concrete added so that drivers can effectively navigate the short cut. BUT they are not to get all 4 under that curb on the right.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

I allow the same wide berth at Infineon also.  So no problem there.  Similar to the wide track out on Indy as you exit turn 7 was allowed.  I understand what your saying Don. I see them cut the corner also in DTM (pretty spectacular how they hit em!! BUT they make sure to get that outside tire to not go beyond the inside of the curb.

Hell at most tracks they design the curbs so that if you do that you could be looking at suspension failure.

Now some tracks they 'help' with that close cutting the inside line. For example Road Atlanta Turn 2 where there is additional concrete added so that drivers can effectively navigate the short cut. BUT they are not to get all 4 under that curb on the right.

Well good.  Good to know there are places where 4 tires can be off the racing surface.  Honestly the only penalty I've seen in any real track cutting has been straight lining chicanes at Daytona or Monaco.  Beyond this, they don't care how you cut a corner. Usually because it will be slower or damaging to your car as you say.

Wait, we could run wide out of the right hand kink at Indy???? Even know its dirty and you are technically off the racing surface???? WTF? Wish i had known........ Tisk tisk..... I expect any intentional driving off the racing surface to gain an advantage to be considered "cutting" in some way.... No?

So wait,(alps) is running high on the turn 1 banking, running wide before and after the right hander around the pond LEGAL????

Also, there have recently been some real life tracks instituting track-specific rules about corner cutting. At Barber Motorsports Park, drivers are not allowed to put tires in the grass at all, and will give you a very stiff fine if you damage their perfectly manicured grass. Virginia International Raceway has recently instituted a similar rule, probably to stop drivers from wearing the dirt down dangerously below the track before the uphill esses. When the track was originally built in the 1950s, they had a very effective, but probably more dangerous way to discourage corner cutting. They simply put a few half buried tires just inside all the apexes.  

@SPEEDRACER: Not quite sure what you mean about running high on the banking in turn one. If you're talking about the exit, where there is about a car width of pavement outside the curb, I'm pretty sure that is not allowed. As you come of out the tunnel and go around the lake, running wide is definitely not allowed. You have to keep at least two tires on what Forza considers a clean line there.

Sorry, i didn't know the track direction. In that case it would be running wide on the banking of the final turn. White striped area, dirty in forza.

Ohhh. I'm thinking that white striped area where there is more banking on the outside of the final turn is off limits as well. I certainly never saw anyone take that line intentionally during the race. If I saw it happen at all, it was because someone was totally out of control going into that turn and just couldn't slow down enough to take the clean line, and ended up going slower than if they had been in control.

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

Sorry, i didn't know the track direction. In that case it would be running wide on the banking of the final turn. White striped area, dirty in forza.

I think Pred was just having a little fun saying "go ahead and cut" because all you'd gain by doing so is body damage [or worse]....  You need to get used to his sense of humor.

In the FSCS, corner-cutting, or going wide off-track to maintain speed, is never allowed.  Safest assumption to start from.

bigdutyDMomoney wrote:

Ohhh. I'm thinking that white striped area where there is more banking on the outside of the final turn is off limits as well. I certainly never saw anyone take that line intentionally during the race. If I saw it happen at all, it was because someone was totally out of control going into that turn and just couldn't slow down enough to take the clean line, and ended up going slower than if they had been in control.

Right, the Karousel [as that area is called] will dirty your lap in Forza as well.

AAR GTDon wrote:

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

Blahzay xxl wrote:

AAR GTDon wrote:

Wow, really? I was penalized for cutting corners?  That's a first. I guess I better figure out what cutting a corner really is.  Maybe Citizen can explain, he seems to be much better at it than me. lol

I had this happen to me its clean for qualifying, its clean lap according to forza but not for pred.

I can assure you it is not clean for qualifying getting 4 tires completely off track.  Getting 4 wheels completely off the track is cutting the corner in qual as well as during the race. I have no problem with 2 tires in the dirt and two on the curb. But if I can see any space between a tire and the curb or track surface it is cutting. An occasional cut is understandable. Two or Three in a row or 4 of 5 or 3 of 4 or cutting 2 corners the same lap then doing something similar the next lap is not.  Nothing different here than what you expect from real rubber carbon fibre and sanctioned races.  That's is ALL this series uses for example and applies as best we can to adopt to FM4 and FSCS.

I'm not really protesting, but REAL cutting the track has been something quite a bit different than whatever I did.  In real racing cutting the track, is literally doing just that, cutting the whole track to gain position. Running over curbs is never called.  If you don't believe me, watch the V8 Super Cars, or NASCAR at Infineon. lol NASCAR goes completely off the track at Infineon, and I would bet money you would penalize me for doing the same.  They do it because its faster to allow the car to slide wide than to stay on the actual racing surface.  You know the right hand corner I speak of, where you better get back on the track quick before you hit the wall.

But no problem, I'd rather know now, so that I can be the little snitch later, right hired?

Yep

LOL, what are you Yepping about Hired?

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

LOL, what are you Yepping about Hired?

Don's question about being a snitch.

So what I'm seeing here (and what I previously assumed) is any and all excursions repeated or intentional will be deamed cutting if more than 2 wheels leave the racing surface. running wide to maintain momentum is the same as short cutting the inside of. Turn. Correct???

The variation I see from this is pred saying running wide exiting turn 7 at Indy is acceptable.....?????

LOL, I woulda saw it or Sainted would have seen it anyway. There are certain tracks that lend themselves to certain things and on those certain tracks a certain Admin knows what to certainly look for.  

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

So what I'm seeing here (and what I previously assumed) is any and all excursions repeated or intentional will be deamed cutting if more than 2 wheels leave the racing surface. running wide to maintain momentum is the same as short cutting the inside of. Turn. Correct???

The variation I see from this is pred saying running wide exiting turn 7 at Indy is acceptable.....?????

The best way I can simply put it SP33D RAC3R or any other racer who may be in question is that if 4 tires leave the racing surface you are in violation.  The Forza Sports Car Series generally allows the same legal runnoff (going wide areas) or tight inside curb cutting apexes as other 'real life' series do on the specific tracks we run.  I usually announce prior to racing what area is ok to 'go a bit wide on' to the room host (most are veterans and already know)  Other than that two tires = ok.  4 tires off track = not ok

To define 4 tires wide picture this...If I or my officials can see any dirt or grass OR the track designation line on the other side of your tire as you put all 4 beyond the track you have left the racing surface. Laps 1 - 3 I am much more lenient and often don't even consider them because everyone is battling and so close it is easy to mis-judge a turn in or a race may have had to avoid an incident and go out wide or cut inside. However, if during those first few laps the race cuts clearly deep into the turn and it was apparent that said race could have easily navigated the turn safely keeping all 4 tires on then that will be noted as leaving the track surface.

To me it's simple if you 'think' it might be illegal or against the rules of racing then probably it is. If your not sure...Please ask I have no problem answering any question.

Qualifying is simple. If it's dirty for Forza to call it dirty then it's dirty. Period.

During racing the FSCS gives more leeway. We are not looking to penalize any racer just for the sake of penalty or being strict. We simple must enforce the rules to ensure fair and competitive racing. That is the ONLY goal of rules here or in any sport.

Admin

I like the way you say I was being dangerous SP33D RAC3R 28x when you kept blocking me for 25 laps even though I wasn't even in your class and going faster than you.

There is a fine line between ok and not ok. If I can see any space between the curbing and the track, or if I can see space between both tires and the line that designates the track you have left the racing surface. But if your touching it by a little then you have not cut the corner or drifted out too wide. It's a questionable racing line to cut corners where your barely on the rumble strip or curbing or line but to make it black and white hope these visuals help show the point.

Matthnt wrote:

Matthnt wrote:

Gtr start not good. Leader was crusing between 80 and 85 heading into the last corner. Slowed down to 70 before where the pit wall is and I had given leadfoot plenty of room in front of me expecting the speed to stay between 80 and 85. I damaged his car. If I get a penalty so be it but maintaining speed before the go is given must happen.

This needs to be addressed. Happened in the GS race as well as the GTR a lobby start.

bump

Well For my first FSCS start, I had fun... It took quite a while to get started seeing I was in room 3 due to a horrific quali time and the host decided to pre-race at the time of the race? That kinda confused me. I was looking forward to facing off with the famed KikRox268. Bummer. Got invited to room 2 but none of us could join for some reason... We started the race with 3 guys and one lagged out within a few laps. AI SUCK!!! I made 2 huge rookie mistakes blowing 2 corners completely while checking the hud costing me about 30 seconds at the very least. On top of that I got stuck in a demolition derby with a Salleen, Viper and Aston martin AI cars completely destroying my car ultimately costing at least a minute or 2 after the damage I received... All in all it was a good time but very boring and frustrating dealing with faster cars that can't drive... I can't say that I will subject myself to that again.

Do the results get posted or am I just missing something?

P.S. I want a penalty placed on those AI drivers for intentional contact! GGGRRRR...

Speed demon, I never said you were being dangerous. Having any GTR car behind a GT car is dangerous and unsettling for obvious reasons. I never once "blocked" you either, I simply ran my line and ran my race as I am expected to and as someone battling for the lead in my class I believe I have the right to do. In fact I spoke up and offered to let you pass a minimum of 3 times but for some strange reason you didn't get that message...... Maybe in a party? Have me muted? Or simply don't have a mic...? I don't know but wherever the case, i went beyond what is expected of me because that situation only slowed us both down.

I would expect any car with 55pi more and more than double my downforce to be able to drive around me as I remain on my normal driving line anyway. If that is not the case then I'm not sure Ide be comfortable with that person directly in front of me either... I did absolutely nothing wrong here, get your mic fixed orgget in the game chat while racing.

PRed, I don't know if you saw my other post about this, but I didn't make the GTR race. I got into the lobby and my internet crashed before they even did the 1 lap position thing