NURBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE SEASON 11 FINALE'

I will be there for race time in the GT series

The start times for tomorrow's races are a bit odd. 12am for ST? Even with a 12pm start time 10 laps in an st car is over an hour worth of racing so everyone in ST that races GS and CT will miss the 1pm start. ...

When admins of a series dont run the classes they start then oversites like this happen....

To all league races/artist's of virtual race craft consolidation should be be our goal.... shitty car count...add more classes ... not having web site updated add more unreliable admins .... there has been this trend going and its BS...
COMMON SENSE DICTATES....ONCE YOU TRY'D TO FIX THE NOT BROKEN WHEEL YOU BROKE IT...
into a waterdowned run of the mill $@#t ...
Go to 2 classes only build your brand again when times are tough you regroup not spread out...

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

When admins of a series dont run the classes they start then oversites like this happen....

To all league races/artist's of virtual race craft consolidation should be be our goal.... shitty car count...add more classes ... not having web site updated add more unreliable admins .... there has been this trend going and its BS...
COMMON SENSE DICTATES....ONCE YOU TRY'D TO FIX THE NOT BROKEN WHEEL YOU BROKE IT...
into a waterdowned run of the mill $@#t ...
Go to 2 classes only build your brand again when times are tough you regroup not spread out...

Though I don't agree with the attitude of El Roscoe, I do agree with his general idea.  It might be better to pair down the number of classes or consolidate them to retain greater numbers on the grid and reduce the labor to manage them thereby lifting some of the burden off the admins to try to keep up on everything.

@don thats what i said

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

@don thats what i said

Yeap, but in a ¨jerk¨mode ON

i would like to point out i confirmed last night via pm for st and gs at approx. 10pm PST

Predator is splicing it up so that it replicates the United Sports Car Series a bit more. Given that the main addition is happening on a different day i dont see an issue? Perhaps running 2 races on each day would make things more inviting? Or maybe ST/CT multiclass, GS/GTLM and thats it. I would be down with that .

or?

ST/CT at 8 EST Saturday.
GS/GT at 3 EST Sunday.
GTLM/DP;LMP at 8 EST Sunday (<--- since those cars are faster 50 laps wont be that bad overall time wise)

Add the line to all classes will make it more inviting. I hear people say all the time i would run in that series if line was alowed.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

Predator is splicing it up so that it replicates the United Sports Car Series a bit more. Given that the main addition is happening on a different day i dont see an issue? Perhaps running 2 races on each day would make things more inviting? Or maybe ST/CT multiclass, GS/GTLM and thats it. I would be down with that .

or?

ST/CT at 8 EST Saturday.
GS/GT at 3 EST Sunday.
GTLM/DP;LMP at 8 EST Sunday (<--- since those cars are faster 50 laps wont be that bad overall time wise)

I may be an a hole but im correct. And sainted youve lost admin. In my eyes

Hiredgun308 wrote:

Add the line to all classes will make it more inviting. I hear people say all the time i would run in that series if line was alowed.

No way hired, this is a race simulation series. Please tell all this people to grow Up!

I'm more to be more strict on the Game, sim steering, no TCS, no 'Punannay' Line.

You all pointed a lot of things against the series, but most people leave because of FM5, more than the rules in here.

So, if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem. How many of you insist your friend to race?



Well, i'm coming with at least 5 new people to the series next season, plus the 3 are in right now.
Some of them complains of the Line, but i just told them to become a man and left that sily excusé asíde.

Manuel CR wrote:

Hiredgun308 wrote:

Add the line to all classes will make it more inviting. I hear people say all the time i would run in that series if line was alowed.

No way hired,  this is a race simulation series.  Please tell all this people to grow Up!

I'm more to be more strict on the Game, sim steering, no TCS, no 'Punannay' Line.

I have an idea, how about this, get X number of drivers signed up and this will automatically trip the racing line ON rule.  Let's say something reasonable and obtainable like 2 full rooms or 32 drivers trip the rule.  Anything less, and the line stays off! What this will do is prove one way or the other based on signups if the line attracts more people.  Its easy to say more would race in the FSCS if it weren't for the no line rule, but would they really?  I wonder. I wouldn't be afraid to put it to the test and let the people decide.  What's the worst that could happen?  Get a lot more new drivers with the line on, or the same old suspects with it off.  It's a win win for you Pred.  I see that VM has signed about 50 drivers up for their popular Classics Series 7, and they have no restrictions on how you drive your cars.  Something to think about.

Classics has had over 100 sign ups for the past 3 seasons because it is such a fun series and so much car choice in a field that is well balanced. Also it is a classic car series and I for one love the classics.

SPEC Miata Saturday January 11th 6pm PDT (1 Second Rolloff Delay Standing Start) 10 Laps

ST Sunday January 12th 12am PDT (1 Second Rolloff Delay Standing Start) 10 Laps

GS / CT Sunday January 12th 1pm PDT (1 Second Rolloff Delay Standing Start) 15 Laps

GTR / GT Sunday January 12th 4pm PDT (1 Second Rolloff Delay Standing Start) 20 Laps

NON MULTI-CLASS RACE - Each class will have the track to itself!

The final race to close out the eleventh season of The Forza Sports Car Series brings us to the world’s toughest, most dangerous, and most demanding racecourse in the world. Dubbed the "green hell" by legendary racer Jackie Stewart-Nurburgring Nordshleife. It is almost difficult to believe that the intensely demanding Nürburgring was constructed in 1927 as a purpose-built safer alternative to the older races through the Eifel Mountains' treacherous roads. However, in the spirit of the older races, the northern loop ("Nordschleife") is a public toll road, open to anyone for a "touristenfahrten" session for a fee. It's plethora of turns (by one count 73) include hairpins, banked carousels, and the infamous "flugplatz" ("airport") bump where fast-moving cars often go airborne. The tortuous circuit gained its famous nickname, "die Grüne Hölle" ("the Green Hell"), due to the majority of the course twisting through a dense forest. The Nordschleife is considered by many manufacturers to be the ultimate test of their high-performance offerings, and the crown for fastest transit around the 'Ring passes from car to car as the companies compete for the title just as each season the racers of the FSCS battle for the title "King Of The Ring"! .With this race being the final race of the season and a 'double points' event it is sure to present the drivers with the most challenging race they will have all year. {King of the Ring History: Season 1 GT King of the Ring PredatorUSMC / Season 2 GT King of the Ring PredatorUSMC / Season 3 GT King of the Ring METAL C6R / Season 4 GT King of the Ring PLF Spurtle / Season 5 GT King of the Ring OldFenderBender/ Season 6 GT King of The Ring Matthnt / Season 7 King of The Ring GT BIMM3RR - King of The Ring GTC OldFenderBender} / Season 8 King of The Ring GT OldFenderBender - King of The Ring GTC Matthnt} / Season 9 King of The Ring GT PredatorUSMC - King of The Ring GS DR PiiHB - King of The Ring ST Matthnt} / Season 10 King of The Ring GT worminfested73 {R} - King of The Ring GS Matthnt - King of The Ring ST Matthnt}

BE SURE YOUR PI IS CORRECT

No qualifying session This race starts in Reverse Points Order

The Official Grid

GTR
1 MrGRiMP {R} ---confirmed
2 THF dvsSublime  ---confirmed
3 Worminfested73  ---confirmed
4 Matthnt  ---confirmed
5 The Posimosh  ---confirmed
6 Tachyon Racing ---confirmed
7 CitizenS0ldier3  ---confirmed

GT
1 KickRocks29  ---confirmed
2 RR xGhost {R}  ---confirmed
3 f1crzd {R}  ---confirmed
4 Manuel CR  ---confirmed
5 ROCBOTM  ---confirmed
6 ROSCOEpCOTRAIN  ---confirmed
7 LUKEMAD9999  ---confirmed
8 MTBVator {R}  ---confirmed
9 Hiregun308  ---confirmed
10 PredatorUSMC  ---confirmed
11 AAR GTDon  ---confirmed
12 SP33D RAC3R 28x {R}  ---confirmed

GS
1 ROSCOEpCOTRAIN  ---confirmed
2 ASQ BerpDator {R}  ---confirmed
3 CitizenS0ldier3  ---confirmed
4 bigdutyDMomoney  ---confirmed
5 SaintedPlacebo4  ---confirmed
6 Hiregun308  ---confirmed

CT
1 Worminfested73  ---confirmed
2 Matthnt  ---confirmed
3 Ruptured Duck77  ---confirmed

ST
1 KICKROCKS29 {R}  ---confirmed
2 Matthnt  ---confirmed
3 Saintedplacebo4  ---confirmed
4 ChedOcideZilla  ---confirmed
5 CitizenS0ldier3  ---confirmed
6 Manuel CR  ---confirmed
7 ASQ BerpDator {R}  ---confirmed
8 ROSCOEpCOTRAIN  ---confirmed
9 PredatorUSMC  ---confirmed
10 Hiregun308  ---confirmed

SPEC MIATA
1 MrGRiMP {R}  ---confirmed
2 Matthnt  ---confirmed
3 CitizenS0ldier3  ---confirmed
4 AAR GTDon  ---confirmed
5 Hiregun308  ---confirmed

Confirmed NON-Competes
2 EZT Sabre {R}  GS ---confirmed
10 Kamikaze1414  GT ---confirmed
6 hannibaljazz 98  GT ---confirmed
19 CBR900RRR  GT  ---confirmed
3 RR Chelsea {R}  GTR  ---confirmed
3 Manuel CR  CT ---confirmed

No Response Not Racing
GTR
15 NSA Roca ---Unconfirmed
12 SaintedPlacebo4  ---Unconfirmed
11 s0ul harv3st  ---Unconfirmed
8 DTM Sn1p3r ---Unconfirmed
7 Ezt Gambit  ---Unconfirmed
5 Luongo27  ---Unconfirmed
4 Speed Demon 69  ---Unconfirmed
GT
20 RR Russ Wheeler {R}  ---Unconfirmed
18 Hunter 045 {R}  ---Unconfirmed
15 R3troD ---Unconfirmed
14 BLACKxxRAVENxx ---Unconfirmed
13 jpnVR4  ---Unconfirmed
GS
12 Oddball7000  ---Unconfirmed
11 Moesavy  ---Unconfirmed
10 ChedOcideZilla  ---Unconfirmed
9 DTM Sn1p3r  ---Unconfirmed
7 No1 Tommy Smurf  ---Unconfirmed
6 Ezt Gambit  ---Unconfirmed
CT
5 BLACKxxRAVENxx  ---Unconfirmed
ST
16 Oddball7000  ---Unconfirmed
15 Ezt Gambit  ---Unconfirmed
14 Moesavy  ---Unconfirmed
13 R3troD  ---Unconfirmed
12 Hunter 045 {R}  ---Unconfirmed
10 DTM Sn1p3r  ---Unconfirmed
8 jpnVR4   ---Unconfirmed
SPEC MIATA
6 Saintedplacebo4 ---Unconfirmed

No training wheels in this series.  In the slowest class I am ok with it. But anything else no. This Series is geared toward realism.  There is No "ghost" line on any track in the real world. No holographic line to "help" a racer to find where to brake or turn. There are Real markers to see if a driver learns the track and it's visual markers.

Also, RoscoeP
I do agree that I would like to really simplify all the classes. I really only wanted to run GT Cars in this series.

I wonder what would be the feeling on having ONLY
GTR
GT
GS
ST

That's it
GTR runs Saturday
ST runs Sunday morning 11:00am
GS runs Sunday Mid Day 1:00pm
GT runs Sunday 4:00pm

This would make me happy. I have tried to make everyone happy and in turn have watered it down.

ST is at 11am your time pred?

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

No training wheels in this series.  In the slowest class I am ok with it. But anything else no. This Series is geared toward realism.  There is No "ghost" line on any track in the real world. No holographic line to "help" a racer to find where to brake or turn. There are Real markers to see if a driver learns the track and it's visual markers.

So better to have less drivers than more as long as the series status quo is maintained?  Better to have just a few drivers every season even if it kills the series? Really?

 Pred, one of the fundamentals I pounded into the heads of those who created VM was to always ask the question, "is this fun for everyone?" whenever they were thinking of doing something with a series.  And that's how they continue to operate.  They understand that the more you let the competitors compete in the way they want with their cars, the more fun they will have and the more people they will draw.  It's not a theory, the proof is in the numbers they are drawing.  At last count they are up to 60 drivers right now.  Not bad considering the number of people who have moved onto FM5.

Bottom line is the more drivers you have the more fun you'll have, and if you don't want more fun, than don't do things that will gain you more drivers.  Don't allow the line, or any assists, and many will avoid your league that might otherwise join.

Look, I'm not saying you have to flat out change this, I'm saying let the people make the case for you.  If they are so right about leaving the line on and that it will bring more people in, then put their theory to the test!  Make them prove it!  Make them show you that more people will come here if you allow the line, and if they don't, then everyone can shut the hell up about it once and for all.

If you don't allow this and continue to stubbornly close everyone out on the other hand, it just says you are doing this not for the people's fun and enjoyment, but more for your own personal entertainment. And that's a little sad.

You've done the no line thing for a long time, at least give the other side a chance to make their case just this once.  I don't think forcing your way to race on everyone else is the most popular and fun thing you can do.  In fact it is the only thing that seems to hurt the FSCS in the opinion of the majority.  The draw to the FSCS isn't that you don't use a line, the draw is your P.I. leveling system.

Please, with the smaller driver pool out there now, think about the benefit of having more people, and growing FSCS into a much bigger and more fun league.

Thanks
GTDon

Really do not want to get sucked into an argument here, but I find it hard to believe anyone who takes sim racing seriously could advocate for running with the line on. That seems like the ultimate crutch if you ask me. I am obviously not a great driver, but at least I am earning my improvement by learning the tracks and my cars better on my own. Whenever I see some great leaderboard time was done with the line on makes me think a big asterisk is required - I respect those far less than a dirtied lap.

As far as attracting more racers, everyone has their reasons for picking a series to race in - mine was mostly the Sunday night timing and the car selection, but I definitely appreciated the no-assist aspect as a side benefit. Not sure why Pred is coming under such fire at the moment, I think he has established a good structure that leads to good racing. I do agree that the extra classes this Season probably spread the field too much, as the core racers gradually focused on the classes they liked most, but I don't think a fundamental change from realistic racing to something less so is the way to go. I think a 3-race format is the answer: some kind of ST/CT field, a GS/GT field and a PX/D-whatever group. Or maybe even a 2-race ST/CT/GS GT/PX/DP structure.

To answer your question Don...Yes. I would rather have less racers of a better quality and mindset (imo) than more racers who depend on aids to help them 'remember' where to turn or brake.

The FSCS is more of a purist, hardcore, realism series. Not for everyone..for the 'real' sim racers out there, Not so much for the occasional weekend gamer.

I really like going with just the 4 core classes. That really looks interesting to me.

Quality > Quantity.

Just a thought, but Sp33dracer is a 'line' racer. However, he takes the time to practice without it and he still is capable of competing (whipping most tails) in this series.

Manuel CR wrote:

You all pointed a lot of things against the series, but most people leave because of FM5, more than the rules in here.

So, if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.  How many of you insist your friend to race?



Well, i'm coming with at least 5 new people to the series next season, plus the 3 are in right now.
Some of them complains of the Line, but i just told them to become a man and left that sily excusé asíde.

+1

Not to say what was. There was a time when we had over 100 racers in 2 classes. By the end of the season always only about 1/2 still racing.  I think so many classes has watered it down. I think the line may steer some away. But for me, I am ok with that. Maybe season 12 will be more focused and clear in it's format. Clear in it's rules. Easier to follow and race.

Maybe that is what is really needed. Not more classes but less fat more muscle....(gears turning in m head)

I am not forcing anyone to race "my' way. They can race however they choose where ever they choose. What THIS series was built on...The PRIMARY FOCUS of this series is SIMULATION as best as we can do it within the span of FM4 ability.

So, if the line not being there steers so many people away who are not willing to race without it why do we change to suit them? If they want a true simulation type racing experience then the line does not represent that. That's public lobby fodder imo.

I wish we could do two wide rolling starts, had better more realistic damage, tire wear etc...but we don't so the FSCS does the best it can with the platform we race on.

The line will never be a part of the primary classes of this series. Maybe the slower or lowest class of the series. But never for the GS, GT or GTR cars.

The line means a racer / gamer has to commit to another level of realism/difficulty. Rules mean a racer/gamer has to commit to another level of realism / difficulty / accountability, which many don't want to do. Many are barely able to follow simple rules in their own homes and respect things. So I don't expect many to come here where we have a pretty well defined set of rules that we DO enforce for the most part. That is why some quit so fast when they get a penalty. Immaturity = not able to handle a punishment earned. I believe this with every fiber of my being. Because you didn't mean to do something doesn't mean you should not pay the consequences for your actions. Many gamers who race are not willing to grasp this. So they race in series where damage is off, the line is on, penalties are rarely given or are so minor they affect nothing. I want racers to be accountable. My way of contributing to the world. I think that is why we have more mature racers in this series than other series. The ages of our racers I would be willing to bet is on average 10 years older than the others.

I am not against more racers. I am against less realism.

Matthnt wrote:

ST is at 11am your time pred?

Being overlooked....posts say ST is racing at 3 am (my time)

Roscoe, i dont think i have ever disrespected you in a non-joking format and i would hope youw ould do the same. I appreciate having you around and i enjoy driving and racing with someoen who i consider a fun character. So please dont say things like that. I, during the season steered away from it, and in many ways am still a bit weary of things to come but between PMs of Pred and I, I have decided to stick it out and see it through. I offered to help so much before because i enjoyed the series so i might as well help make it as best as i can.

As for the 4 class idea. I dont mind it so much. Its not bad. If we are doing all single class than lets try double wide starts on some tracks? Also, if the goal is realism than go all in Pred. No restarts (can call a lag out a caution and they have to start from pits if its in the first lap). No car communication (other than teammates via a party). Timed races in GS, GT GTR. (Touring cars tend to have their lap counts based on total time so each week it would be different). "How would we do more than one lobby?" Distance in the way that TORA does it. Lets go all in.