Season 6 Race 7 Hockenheimring 50 Laps

stymer wrote:

Not too worried about my penalty since it only cost me one spot. But who doesn't like post-race explanations after a wreck:

I think anyone that was in B room will tell you that God Foot had scary lag the whole time, which the replay probably doesn't do justice. I was stuck behind him and couldn't pass because I was too afraid to try it since he was all over the place. When I saw that he went off track I thought I was safe to go around. For a second I thought he was letting me go around. I called out that I was going on the right, assumed I was past him because I didn't see him beside me and then then he reappeared right before the kink, and BAM. My car's rear end was destroyed and I was sent into a spin, and he carried on with barely a scratch. I think running the rest of the race 5 seconds off of my pace was penalty enough.

I'm interested in seeing a replay to see how this could have been seen as unavoidable contact. But I was surprised to see my name on the list. Not asking for an appeal, because I know that you can't always see exactly what happened when lag is involved. Because of that, I think that the worst a person should get is a warning or probation when dealing with an accident with a lagger. Plus, I think that when I was rear-ended by a lagger and sent flying at Bernese Alps, I was told to take it as a mechanical failure(another time when my car was destroyed and the lagging car barely took any damage). The laggers seem to be immune from penalties because of the "mechanical failure" rule, as if it to say "They can't help it, they're lagging." That should also apply when someone makes contact with them.

***But the main point I'd like to make is when everybody is complaining about your lag and it's holding people up, please be courteous and let people go around you safely unless you have the speed to separate from them.

---EDIT-- After seeing some of the recent posts I think that the tone of this forum might make all other messages seem a little bit angry(which is a problem with internet forums, since you can't exactly imply tone through text), so to ensure you mine wasn't at all angry, I thought I'd add this emoticon

That was a great wrap up. That Lag issue is always brought up and it is something we cannot control. I DO AGREE that a lagger getting damaged or hit by another car DOES NOT warrant any penalties. I say this because the guy around the Lagger does not KNOW where the car will disappear or reappear.

BTW - I did not think that was negative. It is a valid lag point, as was Jeckel's with a laggy car.

Sorry jeckel but your statement was insubordinate. You do not have to work for someone to be insubordinate. I am the director for this series and I expect a certain amount of respect just as I give everyone here that same respect. Some even after I should not. As for your decision to further strengthen your argument...That is up to you. I give myself penalty just as I would anyone else. I had another series official review my incident to see if he felt the same that it was a warning or points or what. I do not give penalties for 'race incidents' and for me a race incident is the normal fender rubbing or light taps that happen in normal racing. Just so happens that in Forza a light tap can get you damage. My tap was very light and in real racing would have not even put a scratch on either car. I had a full fender inside of the car I was attempting to pass. The other incidents are all much more severe and the ones that were not severe got warnings.

As for DoubleRazor1...Yes he is typically a clean racer and I did see that he tried to avoid it, clearly he did. However, he could have tried harder and went off the track to the left just a foot or two and not given Basicblac or himself any damage on lap 2. But the contact DID occur and it was avoidable and it was significant damage hence the rule in place.

I pay attention to lag and anyone who gets hit or who hits a lagging racer I generally just let it go because lag is so unpredictable.

Stymer, yes GOD FOOT was lagging absolutely agree. However, your incident was not caused by lag. You simply tried to take turn 1 side by side as you were carrying too much momentum to turn in to stay inside and not hit GODFOOT therefore you basically bumper car'd him as your left side of your car pretty much smashed into the right side of his car. Yes you took more damage than he did but damage is not the reason for a penalty. More or less A penalty comes when a racers move could have been avoided had that racer not simply been overaggressive to cause the incident. For me as admin I look at things from a 'real' race standpoint. If it were two real racers on track would it simply have been a lil bump n go or a lil love tap that would have resulted in just maybe someone getting loose or many variations of what we see in racing where both cars continue on with nothing more happening other than the driver in the car that got hit or tapped getting a bit pissed but no real damage. But if it would have caused real damage and I feel series official (ALMS ,PWC, Rolex SC) would have called for a pit drive thru or further action then I will penalize. All incidents that occured some more major than others all could have been avoided. (after you said what you said I went back and looked again at your incident because I was going to retract the penalty...but from two different replays its the same... the penalty still stands)

Stymer a lap later from his incident with GOD FOOT had the EXACT same thing happen as what DoubleRazor1 did when he hit Basicblaq in the exact same place and instead of stayin on course and hittin speed demon69 he went off course to the left and avoided the crash/bump.

Mistakes happen and it may have been a complete accident that any driver hits another driver but that does not mean it's not a penalty. When a football player accidentally grabs the face mask of another player or just cant stop his momentum and bumps the Kicker after he kicks the ball the penalty comes because it has to because the rules are there for a reason.

The players get upset, as does nearly everyone when they get hit with a penalty. It's expected trust me. It's how you complain and the words you choose that can make it much worse for the person upset about the penalty.

A couple of shots that while watching the replays I had to get...

In this picture there were two passes happening as they were 3 wide down the straight. Basicblaq passing SpeedDemon and DoubleRazor1 passing both on the outside.

I still do not see any thing about my self getting sent off the track by another driver!!!!!!

Have you ever heard of a sport going back to a game a week prior, watching the replay again and then penalizing after? No. Have you ever heard of a race series look at race footage from a race that happend say 2 races ago and say "oh, we didn't see this bump. Here is this penalty for something you did 2 weeks ago"...No. Not here either. The review of this race is complete. I have spent enough hours reviewing replay footage.

Wanted to address a few comments on this site.

Xman...I think I got 12% rear and 10% side...Now I have raced with RAZOR in practises and even thought it seems we don't get along it is all in fun. Now I know he is not a dirty racer and I wasn't upset at him when I took the hit...Now yes...i was able to still perform but it did affect my handle in the corners..and spots that I would be able to take it out flat had to take it a little slower...I don't know if RAZOR received a warning for another racer before..But I kind of agree that he should have gotten a warning.

As Per Stymer comment..i think when we did the two outlaps that Godfoot was lagging pretty Bad and everyone was complaining about it. I think we need to comeup with a better solution to handle Lag issue. One of things I am suggesting is maybe if when doing the 1 hr lap race we notice that someone has very bad lag then we need to have this person run in their own room. My reason for this suggestion is that the lag affect both the ppl racing in the room and the person who is lagging, Especially those that are behind this person.

Jeckel....I have nothing against you but in on honestly I think you should have just pm the admin or see if you could have talked to him on xbox live. This series has been around for almost 2 - 3 yrs and if you don't like it then you can leave. There are 1 or 2 things that I don't like about the series but the good out ways the 1 or 2 bad things. I'm sure if you make some suggestions the admin will look into.

To Everyone have a Merry Christmas and see you guys in January. I will be online testing some of the GTC cars so hit me up if you are interested in doing some racing for Lemans.

Admin wrote:

Have you ever heard of a sport going back to a game a week prior, watching the replay again and then penalizing after? No. Have you ever heard of a race series look at race footage from a race that happend say 2 races ago and say "oh, we didn't see this bump. Here is this penalty for something you did 2 weeks ago"...No. Not here either. The review of this race is complete. I have spent enough hours reviewing replay footage.

Maybe we should have a review board setp when ppl have a complain we help the admin review it.

This might help with someone of the complaining going on hear

AP - Charlotte, NC
Updated 12:52 pm

As expected, all penalties were upheld from the FSCS Headquarters. Explaination was addressed for each questioned offense by the Director. With this clarification, some teams may see the view if the replay committee. Previous races were not going to be reviewed per the statement.

As for the FSCS, teams are coming into France for the holiday break. We will have to wait until January 8 to see how this plays out on the track.

Point proven about not paying attention it happend this week in this race that you handed out the fines. I was using two races ago as an example. How ever my complaint is the last race were I got rear ended. I recived a fine yet I also got hit and no mention of it. Are we tracking.

And

jeckel4438 wrote:

Point proven about not paying attention it happend this week in this race that you handed out the fines. I was using two races ago as an example. How ever my complaint is the last race were I got rear ended. I recived a fine yet I also got hit and no mention of it. Are we tracking.

And

and? what an ending! J/K!


EDIT : Was just kidding.

ADMIN -

I am buying and testing these GTC cars some tonight. It states Base PI 635. But on some of these cars you have a second number out to the side. Is this the beginning BASE PI for that car? I ask this because so far, only 2 cars are at 635.

Adam (Xman)

Racing is racing and penalties are penalties, but I can't agree with certain ppl getting fines and certain ppl getting warnings, yet every infraction had the same basis for penalty. Driver 1 wrecks Driver 2 = warning, but Driver 3 = wrecks Driver 4 = points penalty. Come on now, really? Repeat offenders, ok I can see that. But I've heard that one of the ppl who got a warning, well, lets just say it hasn't been his first time damaging somebody. The frustration is coming from the interpretation and ambiguity of the rules and how they are enforced. Certain drivers feel that the rules are being slighted from driver to driver and situation to situation. This is the problem that needs to be addressed and corrected, plain and simple. And XMan I don't need your commentary after this post because I'm sure its pisisng someone out there off. No offense. But to add something constructive to all of this nonsense, just simply put, MAKE EVERYTHING EQUAL ACROSS THE BOARD, OR DON'T DO NOTHING AT ALL. That's the problem...now fix it, however you think is right. Not my show, I'm just in it. I don't direct it. That's what needs to be thought about and fixed my fellow drivers.

KikRox268 wrote:

Racing is racing and penalties are penalties, but I can't agree with certain ppl getting fines and certain ppl getting warnings, yet every infraction had the same basis for penalty. Driver 1 wrecks Driver 2 = warning, but Driver 3 = wrecks Driver 4 = points penalty. Come on now, really? Repeat offenders, ok I can see that. But I've heard that one of the ppl who got a warning, well, lets just say it hasn't been his first time damaging somebody. The frustration is coming from the interpretation and ambiguity of the rules and how they are enforced. Certain drivers feel that the rules are being slighted from driver to driver and situation to situation. This is the problem that needs to be addressed and corrected, plain and simple. And XMan I don't need your commentary after this post because I'm sure its pisisng someone out there off. No offense. But to add something constructive to all of this nonsense, just simply put, MAKE EVERYTHING EQUAL ACROSS THE BOARD, OR DON'T DO NOTHING AT ALL. That's the problem...now fix it, however you think is right. Not my show, I'm just in it. I don't direct it. That's what needs to be thought about and fixed my fellow drivers.

LOL - I was agreeing with you on your idea! Another one that I did like was the committee. That way there is not ONE guy that gets all the abuse! No commentary! God you guys suck! I am trying to get into the top 3 posters, man!!!

XMan4299 wrote:

KikRox268 wrote:

Racing is racing and penalties are penalties, but I can't agree with certain ppl getting fines and certain ppl getting warnings, yet every infraction had the same basis for penalty. Driver 1 wrecks Driver 2 = warning, but Driver 3 = wrecks Driver 4 = points penalty. Come on now, really? Repeat offenders, ok I can see that. But I've heard that one of the ppl who got a warning, well, lets just say it hasn't been his first time damaging somebody. The frustration is coming from the interpretation and ambiguity of the rules and how they are enforced. Certain drivers feel that the rules are being slighted from driver to driver and situation to situation. This is the problem that needs to be addressed and corrected, plain and simple. And XMan I don't need your commentary after this post because I'm sure its pisisng someone out there off. No offense. But to add something constructive to all of this nonsense, just simply put, MAKE EVERYTHING EQUAL ACROSS THE BOARD, OR DON'T DO NOTHING AT ALL. That's the problem...now fix it, however you think is right. Not my show, I'm just in it. I don't direct it. That's what needs to be thought about and fixed my fellow drivers.

LOL - I was agreeing with you on your idea! Another one that I did like was the committee. That way there is not ONE guy that gets all the abuse! No commentary! God you guys suck! I am trying to get into the top 3 posters, man!!!

ALSO - I am not being negative this time! How could I be pissing someone off! Not this time, at least!

IF someone is angered by me posting the last two days, PM me and let me know. All of mine recently have been funny OR positive in trying to help with clarification of penalties. I tried to be a little funny to lighten this topic up because it was going way overboard real fast. SO, if I am angering you in anyway, as Kix suggests I might be doing, let me know. I have no problem apologizing and going to some other topic to talk about. HOWEVER - we did get positive ideas out of this - penalties clarified, ideas for how to make it smoother next time with Admin, etc.

I am not going to get angry anymore after two weeks ago. I am not nuclear, I have been decomissioned.

You know what is scratching my badger? Posting three times in a row where one would do just fine...post "loose woman" (edited for pg-13 rating)

See above three posts!

Lol! My bad. I was just posting as they popped into my mind. I did not want to blog either! Single posts in a row it is!!!

No wonder you are a top poster.

I know, right? Going straight to the top!

Some pics. And the closet turn without contact.



We didn't hit!

Great pics Meyervw! Thanks for posting them. I am not saying that because I am in two of them....or am I?

The rules are held the same for EVERY driver. I have said LOOOONG before you rookies have arrived that I hold everyone here to the same standard that would be in ALMS or any other Major Sports Car Racing series. But to make it simple for those who may not actually be a Sports Car Racing Fanatic like myself...

1. Rubbing is racing, light tap (no damage) = no penalty
2. Rubbing is racing, two cars racing for position and they come together because they are in a battle = no penalty
3. Racer touches another racer under braking and they both get a lil loose but it's light damage no loss of control = no penalty
Above example are of things that happen all the time and every race in real racing so i am ok with it here.

1. Dive bomb into corner and create contact that is significant that both cars get heavy damage or loss of control = penalty
2. Completely miss your braking mark or simply just brake to late while behind another racer and you smash into the back of someone causing complete loss of control or major damage or any combination of both = penalty {it is ALWAYS the racer who is behind to have the responsibility to NOT rear end the racer in front. When in doubt brake early OR/AND brake off line}
3. A racer creates contact due to over aggressive racing, trying something that really is above your talent level that causes significant damage to another racer that could have been avoided = Penalty.

To make it simple if it's ok for the real boys I am usually ok with it here. If it would have gotten you a penalty there I am going to give one here.

FINALLY, I do not catch every incident so when I DO see it I hand out the appropriate action. If I don't catch it when you do it feel happy you got away with it and keep it moving. Just so happened that I had some extra time and I watched each replay more thouroughly. Most of the time I am looking for cheaters..People over the HP limit, not running the proper tire, cutting corners, changing build of car when no PI change is given. Some of you have gotten the PM. I don't make it public all the time. I am fair to everyone and that has been the same for 5 seasons. Season 6 is no different. Funny thing is it's ONLY the rookies who are doing 99.9% of the complaining. Wonder why? Hmmmm. Learn the trade of racing and what is expected and your problems and questions will go away.

Some ALMS coverage: ALMS RACE VIDEO

XMan4299 wrote:

ADMIN -

I am buying and testing these GTC cars some tonight. It states Base PI 635. But on some of these cars you have a second number out to the side. Is this the beginning BASE PI for that car? I ask this because so far, only 2 cars are at 635.

Adam (Xman)

The base is 635 GTC and 735 GT. The number that is next to the car will be the PI the car will start at. Some cars need a lil help to be fast others are too fast and need to be slowed down. Hence each car has it's own starting build. AND AS ALWAYS...the PI will get adjusted per each racer during the season.

More cars will be up soon. I am going CAR by CAR, MANUFACTURER by MANUFACTURER and then posting them up.

Admin wrote:

The rules are held the same for EVERY driver. I have said LOOOONG before you rookies have arrived that I hold everyone here to the same standard that would be in ALMS or any other Major Sports Car Racing series. But to make it simple for those who may not actually be a Sports Car Racing Fanatic like myself...

1. Rubbing is racing, light tap (no damage) = no penalty
2. Rubbing is racing, two cars racing for position and they come together because they are in a battle = no penalty
3. Racer touches another racer under braking and they both get a lil loose but it's light damage no loss of control = no penalty
Above example are of things that happen all the time and every race in real racing so i am ok with it here.

1. Dive bomb into corner and create contact that is significant that both cars get heavy damage or loss of control = penalty
2. Completely miss your braking mark or simply just brake to late while behind another racer and you smash into the back of someone causing complete loss of control or major damage or any combination of both = penalty {it is ALWAYS the racer who is behind to have the responsibility to NOT rear end the racer in front. When in doubt brake early OR/AND brake off line}
3. A racer creates contact due to over aggressive racing, trying something that really is above your talent level that causes significant damage to another racer that could have been avoided = Penalty.

To make it simple if it's ok for the real boys I am usually ok with it here. If it would have gotten you a penalty there I am going to give one here.

FINALLY, I do not catch every incident so when I DO see it I hand out the appropriate action. If I don't catch it when you do it feel happy you got away with it and keep it moving. Just so happened that I had some extra time and I watched each replay more thouroughly. Most of the time I am looking for cheaters..People over the HP limit, not running the proper tire, cutting corners, changing build of car when no PI change is given. Some of you have gotten the PM. I don't make it public all the time. I am fair to everyone and that has been the same for 5 seasons. Season 6 is no different. Funny thing is it's ONLY the rookies who are doing 99.9% of the complaining. Wonder why? Hmmmm. Learn the trade of racing and what is expected and your problems and questions will go away.

Some ALMS coverage: ALMS RACE VIDEO

And that should be the nail in this thread coffin. Let's move on and do some wine drinking and cheese tasting in France! And maybe some good hard racing inbetween. My jet leaves in 5 hours to contiue testing. See you there!

with the amount of whining, there isn't enough cheese to supply the demand











*snicker*