Season 7 Race 7 50 Laps of Road Atlanta

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

RESPECTFUL

RACING THAT WAY IS OVER FOR THIS KID EBG
I know I didn't make a mistake you don't run off and coming back on and if so get the hell out the way

I sent this to pred in a PM of what I thought:

'judging by those videos you posted, seems like OZ assumed that Henchman was going to slide to the other side of the track and stayed closer to the inside line, if anything I don't think a penalty should be assessed due to what transpired. I might have done that very same thing.'

If Henchman would have intentionally cut that corner he wouldn't have turned in as early as he did (he would have hit the wall), but there was no way for him to return safely to the track with that amount of speed.

It is just a case of 2 people in the same place at the wrong time.

As I see it, the only way for Henchman to safely enter the track would have been to gun it and slide through the track onto the other side. What he did was exactly what I would have done under those circumstances (sliding into that left with traffic on the right, I would have turned into the grass and tried to get my car stopped and/or under control either right before the track or just as I got back on it as Henchman did). It even sounds like he starts to lose control at the top of the hill he's carrying so much speed

Watching Oz's view, why didn't you just slow down a bit more OZ? I mean I've done that myself, keeping in the gas thinking you'd be able to just go around someone that was spinning. Early in a 50 lap race though? I'd gladly come to a complete stop and slowly go around someone than hit someone when I personally can avoid it (regardless of who's fault it was that caused the incident), and you had plenty of opportunity to do that. As soon as I saw Henchman come up next to me like that, carrying that much speed with that line into the turn I would have slowed down more than usual so I could avoid an incident.

What I see is Henchman making a mistake, but not being able to control the car until it gets back on tarmac and then OZ being unaware of his surroundings and entering the corner like he was the only one there. Both could have prevented the incident by being less aggressive. Don't think I'd penalize anyone

Guys think of this, when we watch racing on the tube how many times do we see a car that goes off and has to sit there patiently (or not) while about losing a half dozen spots JUST so he doesn't hit or in real life hurt someone else. This is how it is suppossed to be done, wait until your clear, simple as that. Yes I watched the replay, yes it is controversial as hell, BUT the fault is still on the car that goes off,and by watching it looks and sounds like he could have stopped --- waited to be passed and go on.

We had ALMOST the same thing in our room when a racer wanted to pass ranzer and myself in the same location, he got into both of us !

I hear both sides of this argument, yes my brother should have slowed down more and he wouldnt have had contact, however say he did slow down more and avoided Henchman, Henchman still made a very agressive move that he shouldnt have done. And imo thats what I feel really needs to be addressed.

Kayotic Cal wrote:

I hear both sides of this argument, yes my brother should have slowed down more and he wouldnt have had contact, however say he did slow down more and avoided Henchman, Henchman still made a very agressive move that he shouldnt have done. And imo thats what I feel really needs to be addressed.

Well put, I knew Henchmen was coming and would not make the corner so I took evasive action to avoided both cars. Henchmen knew or should have known that he would catch OZ and I at that same place every lap. IMO Henchmen made a miss calculation and should be punished not because of malice but because it will set a proper precedent. When any one of us goes off track you cannot rejoin the race or get back on the racing line w/o checking for on coming traffic. OZ should not have to worry about Henchmen gathering himself because he effectively made himself ineligable on that lap. BTW I had a lapped car not move over and basically cut me off at the top of the straight. If that resulted in an accident I would be all over this chat room lobbying for a penalty. Nothing personal just letting people know that accountability is important in a series.

I think you guys are miss understanding what Pred, Fender and vee are saying. They are not saying that Henchman was right into come back on the track. They are saying he made a mistake and that what cause him to go off the track and come back on..He didn't have full control of the car and that is why it came back on to the track.

OZ from the replay it looks like you could have slowed down a little . but I was not in you car to see what you were doing . Maybe you thought he was going to stay there and not come back on..But any time I see a car looking like they are going to come back on and get off the gas and try and slow down.

But I think Henchman does deserve at least a 45sec penalty...I don't think it was his full intention to come back on so he shouldn't be on probation. I think we are going to need to clarify what get a penalty and what doesn't

Basicblaq wrote:

But I think Henchman does deserve at least a 45sec penalty...I don't think it was his full intention to come back on so he shouldn't be on probation. I think we are going to need to clarify what get a penalty and what doesn't

Excactly. Did i over shoot some turns this season, Yep but i do it when theres no one around so if i mess up trying to delay my breaking point to get a faster lap I dont cause a wreck. No one is saying he did it intentionally. Of course is was a mistake but like most mistake there are consequences so I do feel that 45 sec penalty is in order.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

RESPECTFUL, THOUGHTFUL. NOT JUDGEMENTAL.

Ummm. These were my thought about what happened in the video, they were respectful and not judgmental. It comes down to a very aggressive move that was done and could have been avoidable with some patience. To continue to attempt a pass, two car pass no less, at that portion of the track is dangerous for all drivers. Driver One should have (and could have) cancelled the attempted pass to allow himself to reposition himself back on the racing line behind the other drivers to reattempt the pass when safe to do so. There are other places on the track to attempt passes safely, in fact right after those series of turns are two places to safely pass. One right after those turns and another right after the next turn before the start/finish which leads to a long straight before turn 1 leading up to and after the start/finish.

If Driver 1 has stayed on the track then this would have been a different situation, but due to Driver 1 leaving the racing surface it then becomes an issue of Driver 1 reattempting to enter back on the surface and rejoin the race and the event that lead up to this. So due to his aggressive pass attempt he left the racing surface, these actions lead Driver 1 to attempt to rejoin the racing and enter the racing surface at a reduced speed thereby cutting off Driver 2 forcing Driver 2 to rear-end Driver 1. This Pass attempt could have been aborted at anytime to safely slow down for the corners. I think this is what needs to be looked at and evaluated and not if Driver 2 slowed down he could have avoided contact.

Could Driver 1 have slowed down and aborted the pass attempt in enough time to avoid this situation ? If YES then enforce penalty. If NO then not action taken

This was a series of errors by Driver 1 that lead to this situation. What is being said, if not penalized, is that these aggressive moves are acceptable and will be tolerated. That any incident like this will be the fault of both drivers. That any Driver reentering the racing surface will have other Drivers yielding to them so they can rejoin the race. This has to be penalized so that clean racing can continue and have Drivers thinking about and evaluating when to pass and when not to pass safely for themselves and the other drivers.

I am trying to be non judgmental and fair in all this, but this is based off viewing the video replay so some opinion and judgement is required to make a determination. Like I stated before, I am viewing the events that lead up to this, not the incident that occurred. The incident is the end result of a series of choices made prior to it. I said this before, so I don't know how else to write this up??

Thanks

Basicblaq wrote:

I think you guys are miss understanding what Pred, Fender and vee are saying. They are not saying that Henchman was right into come back on the track. They are saying he made a mistake and that what cause him to go off the track and come back on..He didn't have full control of the car and that is why it came back on to the track.

OZ from the replay it looks like you could have slowed down a little . but I was not in you car to see what you were doing . Maybe you thought he was going to stay there and not come back on..But any time I see a car looking like they are going to come back on and get off the gas and try and slow down.

But I think Henchman does deserve at least a 45sec penalty...I don't think it was his full intention to come back on so he shouldn't be on probation. I think we are going to need to clarify what get a penalty and what doesn't

Basically this ---> Could Driver 1 have slowed down and aborted the pass attempt in enough time to avoid this situation ?

See my post above on my view

Duc748s wrote:

Basicblaq wrote:

I think you guys are miss understanding what Pred, Fender and vee are saying. They are not saying that Henchman was right into come back on the track. They are saying he made a mistake and that what cause him to go off the track and come back on..He didn't have full control of the car and that is why it came back on to the track.

OZ from the replay it looks like you could have slowed down a little . but I was not in you car to see what you were doing . Maybe you thought he was going to stay there and not come back on..But any time I see a car looking like they are going to come back on and get off the gas and try and slow down.

But I think Henchman does deserve at least a 45sec penalty...I don't think it was his full intention to come back on so he shouldn't be on probation. I think we are going to need to clarify what get a penalty and what doesn't

Basically this ---> Could Driver 1 have slowed down and aborted the pass attempt in enough time to avoid this situation ?

See my post above on my view

he was not attempting to pass oz, he had already done so. theres a full car length between them when the incident happens. the safe driving was on oz now to not hit anyone in front. the main issue for henchman was not hitting science (or whoever was in front of him). its oz' duty to avoid incidents, henchman was dealing with his own. science reacted fine, henchman reacted fine, oz did not. oz couldve slowed down, couldve taken the turn wider, he knew things were happening yet he took the turn the same as always. henchman couldnt stop quick enough, not because of what he did but because of hitting the grass. science (or whoever) allowed henchman to safely enter the raceline again. its oz that did not react acordingly and smashed into henchman. watch the vid for his brake lights, he takes the turn as normal even though he knows theres a car to his left, and he lets off of them and barely taps them again before hitting henchman.

however i dont really care, i stand behind pred on this matter.

I'm going to agree with pred and fender. i would call this race racing incident. I was in OZ shoes last season in the same area of the the track with god foot. Yes henchman came back on the track but not by his own will the car is still in a slide which slides him out on the track, he is still on the brakes when he enters the track which shows he is trying to stay out of the the road. Oz is not at fault either he is racing trying to capitalize on the mistake of henchman. You can clearly hear Oz get back on the throttle then gets on the brake once the sees henchmen slide back on the track. I did the same thing last season that Oz did and the outcome looked the same, two wrecked cars. It happens it racing cars slide across the track all the time and collect others cars.

Where do you see an aggressive pass the pass is done at the top of the hill the mistake happens under braking or not braking in time but there is no aggressive pass it's clean and mistake free. I know there are some cars that like to dance around on that downhill while under braking

ranzeroxklaus wrote:

Duc748s wrote:

Basicblaq wrote:

I think you guys are miss understanding what Pred, Fender and vee are saying. They are not saying that Henchman was right into come back on the track. They are saying he made a mistake and that what cause him to go off the track and come back on..He didn't have full control of the car and that is why it came back on to the track.

OZ from the replay it looks like you could have slowed down a little . but I was not in you car to see what you were doing . Maybe you thought he was going to stay there and not come back on..But any time I see a car looking like they are going to come back on and get off the gas and try and slow down.

But I think Henchman does deserve at least a 45sec penalty...I don't think it was his full intention to come back on so he shouldn't be on probation. I think we are going to need to clarify what get a penalty and what doesn't

Basically this ---> Could Driver 1 have slowed down and aborted the pass attempt in enough time to avoid this situation ?

See my post above on my view

he was not attempting to pass oz, he had already done so. theres a full car length between them when the incident happens. the safe driving was on oz now to not hit anyone in front. the main issue for henchman was not hitting science (or whoever was in front of him). its oz' duty to avoid incidents, henchman was dealing with his own. science reacted fine, henchman reacted fine, oz did not. oz couldve slowed down, couldve taken the turn wider, he knew shit was happening yet he took the turn the same as always. henchman couldnt stop quick enough, not because of what he did but because of hitting the grass. science (or whoever) allowed henchman to safely enter the raceline again. its oz that did not react acordingly and smashed into henchman. watch the vid for his brake lights, he takes the turn as normal even though he knows theres a car to his left, and he lets off of them and barely taps them again before hitting henchman.

however i dont really care, i stand behind pred on this matter.

OK re-watched the video again to be sure... When Driver 1 passed Driver 2, Driver 1 was still at full throttle and could not safely merge into position unless 2 things happen --- 1. He slams on his brakes to get in between both cars (Driver 2 would possible hit Driver 1 in the rear)/overshoots corner going off track at the outside instead of inside grass (best outcome) 2. Abort attempt at last minute, hit the inside grass and hope for the best <--- what happened. There was no other way I could see this playing out. Driver 1 did not attempt to continue to the outside of the corner, jump back to the inside to get out of the way, or continue to throttle threw the corner prior to being hit.

In the end there was no way at that speed and point in the track to safely pass and position himself. This all comes back to --- Could Driver 1 have slowed down and aborted the pass attempt in enough time to avoid this situation ? The Driver in Front of Driver 2 was ahead of all this and possibly didn't even know this happened. I don't view this incident as malicious or intentional in any way, it's just an incident that happened from a few errors from a failure of knowing the track position, speed and ability of the car's braking point of the corner, shit happens.

I do agree (as another poster has stated) that the penalties should be reworked and this does not require a probation. At most I would issue a 45 sec penalty, a 30 sec penalty would be best (with no probation) for one race. Probation should be reserved for Drivers that continually have incidents due to continued bad judgment or over aggressiveness while racing for ..say 3 races in a row. There will always be incidents in racing, everyone has a bad day (or race in this case) and a probation is kind of harsh for a first offense. I think this is what leaves the officials to sometimes give a pass to infractions such as this. Also there should be a means to Appeal penalties trough official channels, after all if penalties could be handed down the the person that's getting the penalty should have an option to explain what happened. I know this happens now (as I had the pleasure to experience this) but it should be "Official" and in the rulebook with a formal process to abide by.


Anyway it's put it all comes down to whatever Pred says goes, So yea, like you I'll stand behind Pred's decision whether I agree or disagree with it. It's all racing and in racing there are some things that happen that we don't agree with (at least in real racing) we basically accept it and concentrate on the next race. There were times I have had issues with official's decisions, I say my peace and move on. I couldn't waist time trying to change the opinion of an official when that time was need to prepare.

But I must say in my experience so far that Pred is fair and tries to be objective at all times. I truly would hate to be in his position. He has done an excellent job so far. With the current rules I could see why he is leaning the way he is. He should be able to make amendments to the rules, or have a trial for the rest of the season to be possibly be incorporated into the rulebook formally next season. Current racing series do this, I see no reason why Pred couldn't. It just has to happen in enough time to allow the racers to be prepared for the next race. That's why some changes happen for next race, or in 3 races or next season. It all depend upon if the racers can comply within enough time.

I'm just throwing ideas out there, maybe they'll stick, maybe not

Race Room Recap and Incident Report

A Room -

RAFT RAFT No Brakes GT #24 Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 during the single file start of the race is not in single file and and passed 1 car before the Pole Position Driver got on the gas and nearly passed a second. He did let off the gas to fall in before he passed the second car. Penalty Assessed 15 Seconds.

No other Incidents to report.

Great Racing lap 11 through 14 where the GT and GTC cars were in a big gaggle of cars racing for position. It was great to see so many GT and GTC cars racing hard and passing among the classes. Worth a look on the replay!


B Room -

Lap 3 - Wngless mkIV GTC #626 Toyota Supra RZ - Warning for excessive blocking maneuvers on White79bu GTC #710 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500.

No other Incidents to report.

The battles in this room were great to watch. Sambinksey and RAFT Zed o Sick were battling nose to tail for the lead nearly the whole replay. There were about 20 laps where it was 5 or 6 cars battling in what was Ferrari vs McLaren duking it out. Good racing guys!


C Room -

JDM 350GT GTC #09 BMW M3 (E36) - Outlap hits his own teammate causing damage. - WARNING

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN GT #14 Ferrari 458 Italia - Nearly Jumps the start and out of line. Gets in place just at the last second. - WARNING.

Lap 3 - SVT MOTORSPORT GT #8 Jaguar RSR XKR GT has all four tires off track to make a pass and gaining a position on jpnVR4 GT #79 Devon GTX - WARNING

Lap 11 - ROSCOEpCOTRAIN GT #14 Ferrari 458 Italia - Forces jpnVR4 GT #79 Devon GTX off track and into the grass to the left by basically slowly moving over on him to the point where he had to back out of the throttle and go in the grass to avoid contact. - WARNING

No other Incidents to report.

Great battle of the M3's in C room with JDM 350GT GTC #09 BMW M3 (E36) & BlackHawk S61 GTC #114 BMW M3 (E46).


D Room -

The start of the race is a little deep down the front straight and a tad bit spread out but everyone was in single file and it was a clean start.

Lap 8 - xxHENCHMAN24xx GT #124 Ferrari Challenge Stradale loses control under braking in a pass attempt. In doing so leaves the racing surface to avoid incident but as he returns to the track although possibly not in complete control of his car does so directly in the path of incoming traffic. All other factors strongly considered. 30 Second Time penalty assessed. (15 seconds less than the norm due to the extenuating circumstances of the contact that was made)

Lap 14 GT / 11GTC - o351 GT #51 Porsche 911 GT2 RS rearends the #20 GTC Lamborghini Murcielago of Duc748s causing damage. Duc748s hit the brakes for no apparent reason while in complete control of his car in a place where full throttle is easily done. WARNING ISSUED.

No other Incidents to report.

The racing in the room was not problematic save for the two incidents and the amount of distracting chatter in the room.


THE FINAL RESULTS ARE POSTED.

ALL REPLAYS ARE ON PREDATORUSMC STOREFRONT

Congratulations to BIMM3RR in his #13 RUF RGT-8 for a hard fought and very close win in GT!
Congratulations to DesertDuck #11 Lotus Exige Cup for a pretty convincing win in GTC!

The GT Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to ranzeroxklaus for Charging through the field from 27th to finish 16th on the grid gaining 11 positions.

The GTC Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to OldFenderBender for Charging from 8th in the field to finish 3rd gaining 5 positions.

ranzeroxklaus wrote:

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

The GT Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to ranzeroxklaus for Charging through the field from 27th to finish 16th on the grid gaining 11 positions.

Congrats Zero!!!

i think im doing well without my team-mates tbh

Great week for Insomniac Racing! DasVDub88 and myself both finished in the top 10 and ranzeroxklaus gets Hard Charger award. Proud of our team.

Bradsz wrote:

i think im doing well without my team-mates tbh

less distractions, trash talking and chatter imo

Basticular wrote:

Bradsz wrote:

i think im doing well without my team-mates tbh

less distractions, trash talking and chatter imo

Uh oh, the lost boys are uniting!

The GT Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to ranzeroxklaus for Charging through the field from 27th to finish 16th on the grid gaining 11 positions.

Good job zero on moving up 11 positions, I do have a question though. Doesn't moving 12 positions get the hardcharger or is there other stipulations that qualify one for that award?

onewickeddsm wrote:

The GT Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to ranzeroxklaus for Charging through the field from 27th to finish 16th on the grid gaining 11 positions.

Good job zero on moving up 11 positions, I do have a question though. Doesn't moving 12 positions get the hardcharger or is there other stipulations that qualify one for that award?

i was wondering about that too, three people moved up 12 positions. if you look at the finishing numbers though, it says 17 twice. that means that the four who moved up 12 positions actually gained 11 which means it goes to the highest finisher out of the five of you. minor slip up by pred :p

Raceboy77 wrote:

onewickeddsm wrote:

The GT Hard Charger Award 2 point bonus is given to ranzeroxklaus for Charging through the field from 27th to finish 16th on the grid gaining 11 positions.

Good job zero on moving up 11 positions, I do have a question though. Doesn't moving 12 positions get the hardcharger or is there other stipulations that qualify one for that award?

i was wondering about that too, three people moved up 12 positions. if you look at the finishing numbers though, it says 17 twice. that means that the four who moved up 12 positions actually gained 11 which means it goes to the highest finisher out of the five of you. minor slip up by pred :p

but if im getting called out on every thing here we go...unintensionaly zero ran in to me from behind which was a penalty to me two races ago and jpn never called outside and didnt know he was there till he started crying.then while we all had to wait after the race he dipped out again no pen
just saying ....