SEASON X RACE 7 Le Mans GT/GS 25 Laps ST 10 Laps

not even focusing on GT points after this race, had to run the car so hard during the week to make it go fast that I would eventually wreck it multiple times, it was always the same type of corner and it happened again today. Oh well, the car was running better then expected despite a dnf, and a win in ST. Not too bad of a day in my opinion.

I tried !!!but after falling back to the tenth spot I couldn't over come that. Congrats Kami

It was overall a good GT race.  There was some contact that has been noted. Some of which is simply racing and incidental.  

I don't know why we cannot have a clean start to the races. Always takes all the restarts.  I am VERY VERY tempted to make it cut and dry no restarts.  Force people to be more responsible.

For me personally that was a hell of a race. From lap 1 Raceboy77 and I battled. 25 laps later and it was a relief to cross the line in third.

Congrats Kamikze1414 on the win!!

At this point one restart and that's it  we had to many and cost a few racers a higher spot.I would have loved to put pressure on Kamikaze but that last restart killed it. Im happy to have battled back to second but would have love to had  chance to beat Kamikaze

As much as i would like that too pred i would be pissed if that was the case. on two restarts i got destroyed into turn 2. im talking full lock skid into me while i am already going WAY off track and wide to avoid the 3 guys doing it to my inside. Cant avoid them all.

True Sainted,but ppl need to be more cautious and repeat offenders need a race or two suspension maybe...I know accident happened but we need something..like last week we went past the restart make and I got hit after we had restarted from others wrecking and I didnt get  a restart.

It is unfortunate, yes, but any contact at all, there's usually someone to suffer who didn't do anything wrong. Plenty of racing incidents in the real big leagues, you'll see a true race contender taken out wrongfully, and they've got to suffer more than what we do for just being here on Forza.

Incidents are a shame all the way around. I guess in Forza it's easier to push that bit over the edge, knowing that you'll be fine if you wreck, but you end up messing someone else's day up because of that false sense of security.

Granted, sometimes, it just is a sheer accident. Even if you weren't trying to squeeze every bit out of the car, you just take the corner slightly wrong, perhaps a bit too much trail braking, and you end your race and someone else's.

The restarts can be nice, but they definitely do change things. Unfortunately, it's.. Either continue on with someone's race ruined off the bat, as option one, or restart, and someone else may get the same luck. Unfortunately, it's either, guaranteed someone's having a bad day, or give it another shot, and hopefully everyone will keep it clean off the start.

Personally, I had very mixed feelings about starting in the center of the pack here at Le Mans, just because I knew that first lap especially was going to be filled with so many close calls. I was absolutely planning on taking it easy enough to leave enough on the table to avoid getting taken out, but was afraid I'd get rear ended that much harder for letting up a little bit sooner yet.

Unfortunately, well.. I had a clean half a race with the AI.

Go figure, the Corvette ran away with what would have been a guaranteed win, had I let the race go on after I wrecked.

Then the penalties will come quick and fast.  Enough penalties and it forces racers to have clean starts.  Force responsible more cautious starts.

right nobody is perfect but if you wreck you race with damage or quit out. I know me and u both would have love restart last week but we didn't.

I'm pretty disappointed that I wasn't able to race this weekend, i'll be ready next weekend though. On another note. I am always cautious on my first lap, and especially going into the first corner. Like it's been said no race is won in the first corner on the first lap. It's just that everyone is trying to push it to get a better position to start off the race, and it causes issues when someone pushes to hard to soon. I usually just take it upon myself to race cautiously until the field spreads out a little bit more. I know where my level is at, and I don't want to ruin the race for someone that is fighting for the lead. If I can do this I don't think it's unreasonable to ask others to do the same. This is just my .02 cents.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

After a ALMOST PERFECT start things went fubar at 1:56 (we said 2 minutes is the limit) so then we restarted. And then it just went bad bad bad. The bottle neck that is the first 3 corners caused the guys in the back to go gorillas and rearend the whole field. Finally we get things going and there as a tone of failures, accidents, and issues. Only 7 cars crossed the line. Ched had himself a "steering column" failure but some how he managed to guide it to a halt on the rail sustaining no damage other than his clutch. Sn1per looked to be behind the wheel of the #2 Audi. Max had a fantastic race as i noticed the gap between us rarely moved. Nice job on the top ten and possible 8th place finish after all is said and done. On to Catalunya! I think that im faster with GT traffic tbh. Maybe i just have really good luck and strategy.

Wowza. Sounds like I didn't miss too much. I guess even if I had been lucky enough to make it through the melee, there wouldn't have been too many people left to race with.

Maybe some people did not read my little spiel about overlap wrecks? (In the Hockenheimring thread) If anybody hasn't figured it out by now, the more cars you have lined up, the more it compounds this "accordion" effect. Trying to take advantage of this at the start is a really risky move that will likely cause a big pileup.

Not to mention the fact that if someone is faster than you, which is likely if they qualified in front of you, in an hour and a half of racing they will find a way around you, even if you do pass them on the first lap. Also, if you really are faster because you had a bad qualifying or whatever, you should have no trouble finding a clean way to pass them in such a long race. 

On the positive side, for the ST race I think the restart rule was relatively effective, at least from my perspective. A couple drivers readily admitted that they made mistakes that caused a restart, and went to the back. (Kudos for honesty!) The discussion was a little heated, but IMO it was resolved fairly quickly. As is typical, we had a perfect start on the final restart, as far as I could see. Of course it would have been nice if we could have started like that the first time. I'm hopeful that as people start to see there are repercussions for causing restarts we can work towards that goal.

The initial start in GS was clean, the incident happened in the chicanes and the restart was called because one car had some damage.  Wasn't until Indianapolis/Arnage that we quit out, then the chaos ensued.  

If there's to be "do-over's" then 1 restart on a 1 second delay should be the standard, it worked.

Maxximilllion wrote:

The initial start in GS was clean, the incident happened in the chicanes and the restart was called because one car had some damage.  Wasn't until Indianapolis/Arnage that we quit out, then the chaos ensued.  

If there's to be "do-over's" then 1 restart on a 1 second delay should be the standard, it worked.

I wish everything went smoothly that time. Things might have been a bit different but most likely not.

Maxximilllion wrote:

The initial start in GS was clean, the incident happened in the chicanes and the restart was called because one car had some damage.  Wasn't until Indianapolis/Arnage that we quit out, then the chaos ensued.  

If there's to be "do-over's" then 1 restart on a 1 second delay should be the standard, it worked.

I actually really like this idea. A 1 second per car roll-off delay is a foolproof fail-safe to get a clean start. I think it makes the most difference at Le Mans where I believe the grid is packed much more tightly than at any other track. Unless I'm wrong, every other track staggers the positions. Only at Le Mans do you start side-by-side.

For this reason, I would be in favor of making the 1 second delay standard for every start at Le Mans, restart or no. It would make the first lap a little less exciting, but it sounds like we could do with a little less "excitement." Of course, to keep the back of A lobby from getting a larger delay than the front of B lobby, B lobby would have an additional 16 second delay.

If there are multiple lobbies for a class, as there were in GT, I don't really like the idea of only doing the delay on restarts, because it doesn't seem fair that the entire back of the pack may or may not receive a substantial roll-off delay based on the actions of a few. Only if everyone is in the same lobby, as in GS, does it seem reasonable to only impose the delay on restarts.

oddball7000 wrote:

when you were saying all this mate i was already ahead of the guy infront of you, think it was just some fubared up lag but there was nothing going on on my screen, sorry nonetheless.

Wasn't blaming you, necessarily.  Just noting that you were so close in front of me, that when whatever lag thing happened, there must have been some kind of lag-related contact.  As I initially said, am interested to see the replay to see what, if anything, is visible.....

well on to one of my favorite tracks and I think I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

No restarts mean the offenders will be clearly in the replay, which then would be handled via the penalty system. A lag related restart = the lagger would be required to start from the back of the field. The replays would sort out the rest.

Two restarts in st for the same 2 drivers only one got sent to the back.....both are vetrens that may be quick but still don't have enough sence to relax both should have went to the back

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

No restarts mean the offenders will be clearly in the replay, which then would be handled via the penalty system. A lag related restart = the lagger would be required to start from the back of the field. The replays would sort out the rest.

That statement made me kind of angry. Pred there isnt a penalty available that would have compensated me for the kinds of hits i got on turn 2 lap one. If there wasnt a restart for that kind of hit i would honestly quit the series because my season would be over. I refuse to run a track like Le Mans with 100% everything from lap one turn 2 (including engine damage) and then a 45 second penalty or points be the penalty? No. The people hitting me werent in the points race, they arent at all effected by a points reduction. Call it my tone what you will but i wouldnt be back. Sure real life has that happen, look at Road Atlanta for the Rolex series (or Conti i forget which race it was) but if thats the case then we would need a licence system like real life. Cant let a scrub get behind the wheel of a GS car with 675pi if they cant keep it clean on turn one, let alone a GT car. Especially for a hit like that. If you want to have a system like that you better have some kind of expulsion system in place.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

Sure real life has that happen, look at Road Atlanta for the Rolex series (or Conti i forget which race it was) but if thats the case then we would need a licence system like real life. 

Not sure on how you could do a license system in FSCS considering everyone has very different driving talents and different preferences regarding vehicles and set up's.

I would say Le Mans is rather a odd race for 1st lap front, because everyone is bunched together much more due to being a standing start and more packed together than a traditional standing start and not forgetting some cars are amazing at starts and others are terrible.

Let's not forget as well that we do not have that many incidents regarding rolling starts in comparison (not saying we do not have any I know we do), the issue I find is that we often have restarts when it was not a restart. 

I just think we need to be stricter on the reasons for restarts and put into place the ability to have roll off delays if needed on standing starts

1. lag should only be allowed for grounds for restart, if 3 more vehicles are involved in both the incident and/or the aftermath including being forced to ground to a halt). If a lag hit does not meet this requirement it is NOT grounds for restart.
   
2. Restart regarding damage caused by contact should only be allowed if more than 3 cars are involved in the incident or the damage has greater than 50% damage on any component on either vehicles involved in the incident.
   
3. If the incident does not meet any of the requirements it is NOT grounds for a restart and will be investigated afterwords with penalties given to the guilty party.
   
4. If necessary a standing start 1st lap with a 1 second roll off delay will be used or a mandatory single file no overtaking before 1st corner unless a vehicle falls off the track during this rule.
   

On the penalty front I think their should grid place penalties available like in F1 for next race. (i.e. 5 grid place, 10 grid place or automatic last place etc) and this penalty would stay with them until they raced again in the season (i.e. not avoidable penalty)

This should put off those who are not in contention for the championship from doing such moves considering it will have a direct effect on the race itself not the statistics.

Or do a second roll off on standing starts.

Not pointing fingers Sainted but you yourself made a pretty big error lap 1 in ST and just smashed into DTM Sn1per. So are you one of those so called "scrubs" . 

I don't know a better way to handle it. It's racing. If people quit out because of an accident then they should just sit out and spectate and not race. Or for that matter never participate in any sport because injuries, accidents are part of any sport. If you can't handle a crash, injury, someone hitting below the belt, flagrant foul, roughing the passer, hitting the pitcher on purpose or accident, an illegal trip..etc etc. Then that person should be a spectator and not a participator.

Hmm here is an idea for a new penalty system. Along with the current time/point penalty the penalized racer would be required to have a 5 second delay start from the rest of his class on the next race 1st offence. Second Offence 10 seconds on the next race. This would not only hurt the offenders results in the race of the incident (time penalty or points) it would also hurt them the following race by starting last in the room for which he qualified and with the delay. The delay would also make it less likely the offending driver would repeat the incident the following race due to starting with clear track and not in the 'pack'.

Admin/PredatorUSMC wrote:

I don't know a better way to handle it. It's racing. If people quit out because of an accident then they should just sit out and spectate and not race. Or for that matter never participate in any sport because injuries, accidents are part of any sport. If you can't handle a crash, injury, someone hitting below the belt, flagrant foul, roughing the passer, hitting the pitcher on purpose or accident, an illegal trip..etc etc. Then that person should be a spectator and not a participator.

Good points.  The restarts are definitely double-edged swords - I was happy to have one on the Nordschleife last Season, but the ones at Le Mans didn't do me any good - I had a nice clean start the first race, ended up wrecked on the 2nd and flipped over before the 2nd chicane on the 3rd.  Considering that Aston driver got killed not 10 minutes into the real Le Mans race, I was certainly pissed off about what happened last night, but relatively speaking, I'll get over it.....

Hey i know i hit sn1per. And i thought about that as it was written. I would chalk up my ST incident involving sn1per as a bad move/stupid. I didnt accidentally hit him. I made a move to go around Pred on purpose and then miscalculated my braking point from the inside. I put myself in a bad spot and made a mistake. Didnt change the fact that we had to have damn near 6 restarts because people wanted to punt people out of their way. As for injuries and fouls and all that, im for clean driving. I have played sports and i can say that i dont stand for 1. foul play or 2. idiotic play. Bum-rushing corner 1 like an absolute looney-toon constitutes one of those two in my mind. The way i see it stuff like what happened at Hock to Matt should be an instant ban because of a lack of sense. Having enough sense to know "hey its turn one at Le Mans, we are bunched up let me not hit the gas down all the way because ill hit someone" should be a requirement. I knew that and i wasnt responsible for any contact. I had to go 1/3 throttle all the way to the point where i got hit because even with that tiny bit of gas pressed i was catching the field under braking in Dunlop due to the thing Duty was talking about. Slow is fast. Safe is fast.

Onto the penalty system. Lets keep it real. So real in fact that ill send it as a PM.