SEASON 12 RACE 5 NURBURGRING GP SHORT

Speed I appreciate it but im not that fast and I understand that ypu may run quicker I use to do it with bimmer he would run a secons faster on a tuned car at the same pi. we would run laps and all im not that quick anymore trust me its not that I dont want to its just not there lol...and I think pred is looking at me as a guy that use to be fast and could get it back...I have ran with the line on this whole season and I still have not put down time...I can tune a car I can just about make any car settle down and turn but its just me

Well, now that Matthnt bring it to the topic, its not only GT, GT in kind of close, at least 5 cars are close and some others not far away.

GTLM I think is the one perfect so far knowing that in some tracks the old spec cars are faster but new spec cars have more handling races have been very close. I dont Know abot LMP.

GS I dont remember, but I think there is very close or just needs minor adjustment.

But ST, fron 3rd to 16 is very close, but the first 2 cars need an adjustment.

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

How come I'm being used as an example again and standard?   
I'm not entirely sure why people feel I am a good representation of the speed everyone should be at.... I have anywhere from 12 to 30 pi less than the people competing directly against me on track and I am below base... This means that even at an extremely low pi I am working hard to make things happen and racecraft has a lot to do with it. My car & times havent been the fastest on track in any race yet this season but I have practiced, tuned and fought for every inch I've gained.

Guys, I don't necessarily take offense to you bringing me up as a benchmark but I also don't think its very fair that I be used as a target of "people should be adjusted until they are beating SP33D" either. Being that my car has been top 5 at best as far as lap times on each track it should be clear that my car is not winning races. My race craft, situational awareness and ability to think on the fly are serving me well.

Good luck at sunset guys, it's a scary track if your not prepared.

No offense ..as you are the class of the field you will get the press...
That being said ...there so were others before you who one two races and got hit so hard...-15pi from base pi .....no idea why you have not went less then -5 ...but all the better because WHEN I WIN A GT RACE I WANT NO EXCCUSES \m/

Sweet!!! Come on down to 732 territory and no excuses will be had!!!   
I was under the impression -14 was the lowest anyone went.  
Aaaaaaannndddd.... Haha I'm not that low of PI because I'm not driving (nor would I ever drive) an F50 or scoreboard NSX.. im not taking anything away from these guys, nor do I have any urge to have a low pi in a fast car. but the simple fact is those cars deserve that pi, mine (MINE'S) [see what I did there?  ] doesn't.

Blahzay xxl wrote:

Speed I appreciate it but im not that fast and I understand that ypu may run quicker I use to do it with bimmer he would run a secons faster on a tuned car at the same pi.  we would run laps and all im not that quick anymore trust me its not that I dont want to its just not there lol...and I think pred is looking at me as a guy that use to be fast and could get it back...I have ran with the line on this whole season and I still have not put down time...I can tune a car I can just about make any car settle down and turn but its just me

I never saw your speed before so I wouldn't venture to guess what it could be, I can just try and help you get back in your groove.

Sorry if I don't respond guys, I'm going zombie hunting!!!

Speed your cool I dont mind running I tried to send a friend request but your full I ran a few laps tonight and was going good hit some good laps and some bad all in 10 laps..gots to get consistent again.

Blahzay xxl wrote:

Speed your cool I dont mind running I tried to send a friend request but your full I ran a few laps tonight and was going good hit some good laps and some bad all in  10 laps..gots to get consistent again.

I'll clear a spot tomorrow when I get on.... Didn't realise I was zombie hunting all night   

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

How come I'm being used as an example again and standard?   
I'm not entirely sure why people feel I am a good representation of the speed everyone should be at.... I have anywhere from 12 to 30 pi less than the people competing directly against me on track and I am below base... This means that even at an extremely low pi I am working hard to make things happen and racecraft has a lot to do with it. My car & times havent been the fastest on track in any race yet this season but I have practiced, tuned and fought for every inch I've gained.

Guys, I don't necessarily take offense to you bringing me up as a benchmark but I also don't think its very fair that I be used as a target of "people should be adjusted until they are beating SP33D" either. Being that my car has been top 5 at best as far as lap times on each track it should be clear that my car is not winning races. My race craft, situational awareness and ability to think on the fly are serving me well.

Good luck at sunset guys, it's a scary track if your not prepared.

No offense ..as you are the class of the field you will get the press...
That being said ...there so were others before you who one two races and got hit so hard...-15pi from base pi .....no idea why you have not went less then -5 ...but all the better because WHEN I WIN A GT RACE I WANT NO EXCCUSES \m/

Sweet!!! Come on down to 732 territory and no excuses will be had!!!   
I was under the impression -14 was the lowest anyone went.  
Aaaaaaannndddd.... Haha I'm not that low of PI because I'm not driving (nor would I ever drive) an F50 or scoreboard NSX.. im not taking anything away from these guys, nor do I have any urge to have a low pi in a fast car. but the simple fact is those cars deserve that pi, mine (MINE'S) [see what I did there?  ] doesn't.

Haha Im at my lowest pi ever !!!...ok sorry...-14pi...smh bimmer was not in a f50/nsx...he was in a ruf
Why dont you hop in the clio tough guy ...get out of your comfert zone..Haha ohh snap i forgot you scurred...
I wasnt bashing you....now i will tell you why you have the most wins in a row...and damb sure its not the same as rb/bimmer ..
You whine consintly and pred continues To listen...
You and i in same build/tune you are 1.5sec faster...with 14 pi over you Im at1sec behind...vator has 20pi over me and runs faster ...but Im more consistant at a bigger veriety of tracks...YOU ARE OVER PI'D ...ITS NOT YOUR FAULT...ITS THE SYSTEM
TURN THE LINE BACK OFF AND YOU WILL SEE THE MIARDA HIT THE FAN

Is PI Updated?? if so.... WTF in ST.....WOW....

Manuel CR wrote:

What is the worst can happens if you give too much P.I on someone?   He will win and will be happy, the next race you can rest some if necesary, but we have a happy customer.  

This is my point, the product is a manifestation of the goal. None of this matters if he's not happy. This is not a microcosm of real racing, it's virtual. SVT and I ran a H.O. slot car league for years and we ran into this problem. We had people who were just faster than others. How did we rectify the problem? We manufactured ways to help the slower guys and challenge the fastest. Interest in the series was our main and only goal. This construct is an illusion you created to allow us drivers to virtually compete. The investment is time, how do you provide a return on that investment? I know I have Boo boo to do every weekend, if I know I have absolutely no hope of doing well, there is no return on my investment. Why would I continue?
The Law of unintended consequences are at work here an if you don't yield the series suffers.
" />

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

How come I'm being used as an example again and standard?   
I'm not entirely sure why people feel I am a good representation of the speed everyone should be at.... I have anywhere from 12 to 30 pi less than the people competing directly against me on track and I am below base... This means that even at an extremely low pi I am working hard to make things happen and racecraft has a lot to do with it. My car & times havent been the fastest on track in any race yet this season but I have practiced, tuned and fought for every inch I've gained.

Guys, I don't necessarily take offense to you bringing me up as a benchmark but I also don't think its very fair that I be used as a target of "people should be adjusted until they are beating SP33D" either. Being that my car has been top 5 at best as far as lap times on each track it should be clear that my car is not winning races. My race craft, situational awareness and ability to think on the fly are serving me well.

Good luck at sunset guys, it's a scary track if your not prepared.

No offense ..as you are the class of the field you will get the press...
That being said ...there so were others before you who one two races and got hit so hard...-15pi from base pi .....no idea why you have not went less then -5 ...but all the better because WHEN I WIN A GT RACE I WANT NO EXCCUSES \m/

Sweet!!! Come on down to 732 territory and no excuses will be had!!!   
I was under the impression -14 was the lowest anyone went.  
Aaaaaaannndddd.... Haha I'm not that low of PI because I'm not driving (nor would I ever drive) an F50 or scoreboard NSX.. im not taking anything away from these guys, nor do I have any urge to have a low pi in a fast car. but the simple fact is those cars deserve that pi, mine (MINE'S) [see what I did there?  ] doesn't.

Haha Im at my lowest pi ever !!!...ok sorry...-14pi...smh bimmer was not in a f50/nsx...he was in a ruf
Why dont you hop in the clio tough guy ...get out of your comfert zone..Haha ohh snap i forgot you scurred...
I wasnt bashing you....now i will tell you why you have the most wins in a row...and damb sure its not the same as rb/bimmer ..
You whine consintly and pred continues To listen...
You and i in same build/tune you are 1.5sec faster...with 14 pi over you Im at1sec behind...vator has 20pi over me and runs faster ...but Im more consistant at a bigger veriety of tracks...YOU ARE OVER PI'D ...ITS NOT YOUR FAULT...ITS THE SYSTEM
TURN THE LINE BACK OFF AND YOU WILL SEE THE MIARDA HIT THE FAN

Well I never asked to be compared with those guys and I never claimed to be their speed or faster because their is no info to support the discussion on either side. I am not over pi'ed and you know it, why would I lose pi when there are plenty of people on track running faster lap times at every track? I won every race this season in a hard fought, well earned dogfight.
Line off does not effect my lap times anywhere near as much as people thonk, what it effects is the amount of practice laps (and time) I need to put in to get those times. I dont have the free time to put in to run without the line which is why I never raced here prior to last season.

As far as the Clio?? What clio? And what comfort zone? R3 in general is far outside my comfort zone.I have a looooong history behind what I like to drive and what my comfort zone is. If your talking about ST or GS It's been clear from the beginning that I work Sundays and can't make time for those races.

As far as whining about pi, I have respectfully explained the repercussions of a pi loss on a critical level (1pi ruining the car etc). My comments were listened to and my pi was set at what the admin intended to set it at, my "complaint" was considered and declined. Aside from that I don't complain about my pi nearly as much as you think. In fact you complain about my pi much more than I do and its kinda funny to see the amount of people on this thread along complaining theu want more pi, other people's should be lower and the system is flawed...... And I haven't said a word!!!! If anyone has right to complain about pi its me, being the lowest in the field by far but i keep quiet and man up to the challenge because I entered the series with the intent of running at 735, where the series is based as far as I'm concerned. I won't get into particulars about the whys, hows and ifs of the pi system and my experience here, I will say I am having fun and I enjoy racing with the people I have been in direct contact on track with.   

Offer stands, run at equal pi in the same car and no excuses will be had   

P.I hit to everyone! Let the mid field win.

I dont care if my car comes hard to drive or a pain to tune it.

vV Science Vv wrote:

Manuel CR wrote:

What is the worst can happens if you give too much P.I on someone?   He will win and will be happy, the next race you can rest some if necesary, but we have a happy customer.  

This is my point, the product is a manifestation of the goal. None of this matters if he's not happy. This is not a microcosm of real racing, it's virtual. SVT and I ran a H.O. slot car league for years and we ran into this problem. We had people who were just faster than others. How did we rectify the problem? We manufactured ways to help the slower guys and challenge the fastest. Interest in the series was our main and only goal. This construct is an illusion you created to allow us drivers to virtually compete. The investment is time, how do you provide a return on that investment? I know I have Boo boo to do every weekend, if I know I have absolutely no hope of doing well, there is no return on my investment. Why would I continue?
The Law of unintended consequences are at work here an if you don't yield the series suffers.
" />

NAILED IT!!! If only my thoughts came to through so eloquently... Well done sir

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:

How come I'm being used as an example again and standard?   
I'm not entirely sure why people feel I am a good representation of the speed everyone should be at.... I have anywhere from 12 to 30 pi less than the people competing directly against me on track and I am below base... This means that even at an extremely low pi I am working hard to make things happen and racecraft has a lot to do with it. My car & times havent been the fastest on track in any race yet this season but I have practiced, tuned and fought for every inch I've gained.

Guys, I don't necessarily take offense to you bringing me up as a benchmark but I also don't think its very fair that I be used as a target of "people should be adjusted until they are beating SP33D" either. Being that my car has been top 5 at best as far as lap times on each track it should be clear that my car is not winning races. My race craft, situational awareness and ability to think on the fly are serving me well.

Good luck at sunset guys, it's a scary track if your not prepared.

No offense ..as you are the class of the field you will get the press...
That being said ...there so were others before you who one two races and got hit so hard...-15pi from base pi .....no idea why you have not went less then -5 ...but all the better because WHEN I WIN A GT RACE I WANT NO EXCCUSES \m/

Sweet!!! Come on down to 732 territory and no excuses will be had!!!   
I was under the impression -14 was the lowest anyone went.  
Aaaaaaannndddd.... Haha I'm not that low of PI because I'm not driving (nor would I ever drive) an F50 or scoreboard NSX.. im not taking anything away from these guys, nor do I have any urge to have a low pi in a fast car. but the simple fact is those cars deserve that pi, mine (MINE'S) [see what I did there?  ] doesn't.

Haha Im at my lowest pi ever !!!...ok sorry...-14pi...smh bimmer was not in a f50/nsx...he was in a ruf
Why dont you hop in the clio tough guy ...get out of your comfert zone..Haha ohh snap i forgot you scurred...
I wasnt bashing you....now i will tell you why you have the most wins in a row...and damb sure its not the same as rb/bimmer ..
You whine consintly and pred continues To listen...
You and i in same build/tune you are 1.5sec faster...with 14 pi over you Im at1sec behind...vator has 20pi over me and runs faster ...but Im more consistant at a bigger veriety of tracks...YOU ARE OVER PI'D ...ITS NOT YOUR FAULT...ITS THE SYSTEM
TURN THE LINE BACK OFF AND YOU WILL SEE THE MIARDA HIT THE FAN

Well I never asked to be compared with those guys and I never claimed to be their speed or faster because their is no info to support the discussion on either side. I am not over pi'ed and you know it, why would I lose pi when there are plenty of people on track running faster lap times at every track? I won every race this season in a hard fought, well earned dogfight.
Line off does not effect my lap times anywhere near as much as people thonk, what it effects is the amount of practice laps (and time) I need to put in to get those times. I dont have the free time to put in to run without the line which is why I never raced here prior to last season.

As far as the Clio?? What clio? And what comfort zone? R3 in general is far outside my comfort zone.I have a looooong history behind what I like to drive and what my comfort zone is. If your talking about ST or GS It's been clear from the beginning that I work Sundays and can't make time for those races.

As far as whining about pi, I have respectfully explained the repercussions of a pi loss on a critical level (1pi ruining the car etc). My comments were listened to and my pi was set at what the admin intended to set it at, my "complaint" was considered and declined. Aside from that I don't complain about my pi nearly as much as you think. In fact you complain about my pi much more than I do and its kinda funny to see the amount of people on this thread along complaining theu want more pi, other people's should be lower and the system is flawed...... And I haven't said a word!!!! If anyone has right to complain about pi its me, being the lowest in the field by far but i keep quiet and man up to the challenge because I entered the series with the intent of running at 735, where the series is based as far as I'm concerned. I won't get into particulars about the whys, hows and ifs of the pi system and my experience here, I will say I am having fun and I enjoy racing with the people I have been in direct contact on track with.   

Offer stands, run at equal pi in the same car and no excuses will be had   

I quoted this to show you just like talking to yourself...
Man you are some sort of special... Smh
YOU brought Up Rb in the F50
I'll run you any time kid that's the thing about me... Anyone any time anyway
You may be me on track kid but you will not EVER BEAT THE REAL ALIEN'S, WARSPITE SMOKED YOU, DIABLO, TASTYNIPS, AND THE LIST GOES ON.... SO YOU KEEP BLOWING YOUR OWN HORN KIDDO
Close battles hahaha twice so far this season has ANYONE BEEN WITH IN 10SEC OF YOU FINISHING... you picked your car thinking you would ran at base huh... WHO GIVE'S A RATSASS? NOT YOUR CALL
YOU PICKY THE PANOZ BECAUSE IT CAN NOT GO LOWER

Ok, that took longer than expected but this has become ignorant as expected so im done here. I picked the Panoz because I've always liked the car and Noone was using it. Until I signed up I was under the impression it wasn't part of the series. Had no idea what the pi was until after I registered.

Lol not blowing my own horn at all. Quite the contrary actually, but I see you've manipulated what you believe me to have said to create an opportunity to put me down and compare me to people who may or may not be faster than me (who are irrelevantin thos conversation) I like a few of these people and I'm not going to badmouth them to appease your aggression.

Blahzay, ill hit you up in a little bit.

Can someone see if they can get my car to 802 PI. bc I cant. so im not even sure why my PI is this high I do not feel like I deserve it. Sorry if I start up all the shenanigans about PI. wasn't trying to

just a few cents here... i read Speed say earlier that he is battling guys that are all plus whatever.... im at base in GT buddy, and in GTLM i beat you with only 1 more PI than you (which was a dog fight for the first stage of the race). Im working my tail off as well to run the times i do at base PI.

Now to go with what Science was saying. Look Im not one for appeasement. I dont think soemthign should be outright given just to make someone happy. However, i dont think that certain PIs are correct and i dont think that fixing them would be giving the guy what they want. It would actually be fixing a flaw.

Ill post my data here for record. I hopped in the Joss at 740 and ran it at Laguna a few weeks ago. I was able to run a 26.7 in it after 20 or so laps, some intermediate tuning, and a bit of thought into the way street tires grip. Now comparing that to what i ran in my RUF (at base 735 before i got an adjustment)... i ran a 26.3 So to me at 5 less Pi my RUF was .4 tenths faster. I spent the same amoutn of time or so on that car before i got that time in it. Now, take that data and add a grain of salt. 1. I am at home in a Rear Engine car. 2. It has race tires. Now, Interestingly enough i was actually doing the same speed in my RUF as the Joss in a straight line, and until i adjusted my driving style i couldnt turn very well in the Joss despite having the same Handling rating/lateral G's.

Basically the Joss is a decent car, not a fantastic one. It takes a lot to drive the car effectively, and its much less forgiving. To get the times out of it i had to run a dangerous line that i would not run with drivers around me. Now, that's just me, im sure there is at least one driver here who can run crazy times in it and be safe. But there's a driver i know that races here that emphasizes something. He says something in the lines of, you can make the car faster by building it certain ways, but that doesnt always make it safe. And he is right. The Joss is built to, in the best conditions, run the same times as everyone else. However, that doesnt make it a very safe car. Granted, Blahz has had many many incidences since i have know him, but it would seem that this car has emphasized the mistakes and created more accidents. Thats just because of the fact that it relies on aero. In hot lap, sure the aero is there and you can tune the car to turn decent. Put it in a pack and its a dangerous machine.

The simplest thing would be to allow him to switch out of the car that he is in to something else. He has stated he tried to go that route. Now, ill go ahead and say real clearly, the cars he were offered was a joke. He got the same crap different day. A Z4 BMW GT3 is not competitive. Period. You said it yourself to me in a party before in season's past that the 458 Challenge is NOT a fast car and that you cant get it to run the times that you are running in your 458 italia, which is why you never switched to it despite trying to get it to work yourself. And the last one is the Corvette that someone literally JUST switched out of because they didnt feel it was a car that they were able to compete at a high level in.

So he was giving the option to:
Switch to a car that is slower than sin and is a race platform which doesnt mix with every other car on the grid.
Switch to a car that you, yourself said isnt as fast as your own 458 (and its also.. a race platform ie: doesnt fit in well)
Switch to a car that someone switched out of because they felt it wasnt a competitive car.

That sounds to me like either the list giver didnt want the guy to switch cars, or that he wanted him to stay at a disadvantage, which i am hesitant to believe due to the implications.

-------------------------

Now beyond that, heres a few more cents....

Blahz has been, since i started here, a top 5-8 guy. He was always A room. If we had 8-8 lobbies than he wouldnt even make that these days. I find it hard to believe that he got that washed up. But if you want to combine that he might be dulling a bit with a car that doesnt compliment his driving style well, than you have a problem.

--------------------------

For the whole random car choice thing. I could (thought it would take a tinsie parcel of time to work out any kinks) set up a screen cap and then use an on screen RNG device to pull three numbers. I could post the vid some where like Youtube or whatever, then no one can say that the choices were slanted, or underhanded.

I think you may have missed my point. The point was that I am not the fastest car on the track and being under pi to other drivers I am working for the positions I get (in response to comments that I'm winning too much and my pi is too high) the adjustment system is in place to give drivers a crutch to lean on to aid them in being competitive. The rest is on the driver to extract the potential from their car. I am getting every bit my car has to offer out of it to the best of my ability and cutting my car down for winning when I worked hard to do so and earned it would just be punishment for success, that's not what its all about.

Roca, i thought your car was very competitve where it was (Idk the pi)..... I'll try and build it tonight   

Could someone please translate this please as Apperently we don't speak the same language... Thanks

Speed nobody is attaching you as your new to the series we are just saying that all of a sudden 10 seasons of balanced racing is now lopsided. There are many things that contribute to the cause of this...
None of witch matter.. Because we are trying to move forward and right the ship

Roca... Brother you know it's an error... These things happen
Thank you to who ever can get this message through to speed... Smh

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

Could someone please translate this please as Apperently we don't speak the same language... Thanks

Speed nobody is attaching you as your new to the series we are just saying that all of a sudden 10 seasons of balanced racing is now lopsided. There are many things that contribute to the cause of this...
None of witch matter.. Because we are trying to move forward and right the ship

Roca... Brother you know it's an error... These things happen
Thank you to who ever can get this message through to speed... Smh

Speed im with big dummy here..no one is attaching you its just some of us feel like the series had moved in the right direction and now it seems a lil off but keep doing what your doing..I feel you shouldn't go no lower and others should be brought up jmo...

The fact that there are just some real fast guys out there and it seems you are one of them thats all and what makes ypu fast is consistency that's how bimmer was..he would not run one lap 1.24.500 and the next fer@ 1.25.999 he would run one or two tenth fast or slower... and at the end of the day consistency is what win races.

Blahzay xxl wrote:

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

Could someone please translate this please as Apperently we don't speak the same language... Thanks

Speed nobody is attaching you as your new to the series we are just saying that all of a sudden 10 seasons of balanced racing is now lopsided. There are many things that contribute to the cause of this...
None of witch matter.. Because we are trying to move forward and right the ship

Roca... Brother you know it's an error... These things happen
Thank you to who ever can get this message through to speed... Smh

Speed im with big dummy here..no one is attaching you its just some of us feel like the series had moved in the right direction and now it seems a lil off but keep doing what your doing..I feel you shouldn't go no lower and others should be brought up jmo...

The fact that there are just some real fast guys out there and it seems you are one of them thats all and what makes ypu fast is consistency that's how bimmer was..he would not run one lap 1.24.500 and the next fer@ 1.25.999 he would run one or two  tenth fast or slower... and at the end of the day consistency is what win races.

As the big dummy I approve this message

i think speed is taking what i wrote as an attack on him some how. The only part about him was the first few sentences where i made a jab at him for saying that "noone" around him has anywhere near his GT PI... when i am only 3 away . After that nothing had to do with you or giving anyone a boost to keep up with you. I strictly compared his car to other cars, specifically my car all being driven by me. I was simply saying that my findings were that Blahzays car can be near pace, but it is not a safe car to drive in traffic and loses its speed when in draft. I then went on to criticize the joke cars he was offered.

SaintedPlacebo4 wrote:

i think speed is taking what i wrote as an attack on him some how. The only part about him was the first few sentences where i made a jab at him for saying that "noone" around him has anywhere near his GT PI... when i am only 3 away . After that nothing had to do with you or giving anyone a boost to keep up with you. I strictly compared his car to other cars, specifically my car all being driven by me. I was simply saying that my findings were that Blahzays car can be near pace, but it is not a safe car to drive in traffic and loses its speed when in draft. I then went on to criticize the joke cars he was offered.

Facts.... Where this league was headed we didn't need FACTS

Had nothing to do with sainted or blahzay's comments. Sainted's was a little on the offensive side but easily clarified and blahzay hasn't said much to take offense from. Aside from that I will bite my tongue. No point arguing (or discussing logically) with someone who can't hold a conversation without becoming belligerent. Roscoe has been nagging at my pi all season and last season as well. I've kept my mouth shut and really had nothing to say for weeks on end and I like to enjoy the racing have the opportunity to experience.

2 quick things,
1. how is "your not as fast as these guys and never will be", "you only picked the Panoz because the pi couldn't go below 787", "these people blah blah have beat you and your not that fast so stop tooting your own horn", "you whine constantly and Pred continues to listen" not a group of insults and considered attacking me????... none of those things have anything to do with making the series thrive or moving forward and "bettering the system".

And 2. How can you claim that I am not as fast as the guys you've named, Im not as good as them and they would smoke me but in the same sentence complain that my pi isn't as low as theirs was and constantly complain that my pi is too high?? I brought up the F50 because you said "I dont know why you've never gone below -5 when people had been at -15" and I was offering a logical answer to why. You are comparing my speed and my pi to people who you say are faster than me but you don't understand why my pi isn't as low as theirs.....and I'm not in as fast of cars as they were on top of it. I nevet once since I've been here claimed to be faster than ANYONE, EVER. And I never asked to be compared to any of these people.

I understand that your conversation started out non attacking but you definitely did go there.

..... Im not a kid

"You and i in same build/tune you are 1.5sec faster...with 14 pi over you Im at1sec" rpc. I will speak only in quotes from this thread...
" No point arguing (or discussing logically) "sprcr
 
" i think speed is taking what i wrote as an attack on him some how."snt